New: Amanda Bynes Arrested for DUI; Cops: Man Beheaded Co-Worker; Nationwide Manhunt for Runaway Mom; Extreme Hoarders Harming Themselves and Others
Aired September 29, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a beheading on the job in Oklahoma. Co-workers are shocked. The suspect`s mother is stunned.
SUSPECT`S MOTHER: That`s not my son.
PINSKY: Should his social media profile have tipped someone off?
Plus, Amanda Bynes arrested for driving under the influence. Is this a small setback or something more serious?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. I`m co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, a family of five found dead in their home without evidence of what happened.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: I know, Dr. Drew. There is no evidence or apparent cause of death. And Dr. Bill Lloyd will be here to give his take.
But, first, Amanda Bynes has been arrested for driving under the influence. Now, I want to remind people -- driving under the influence does not
necessarily mean drunk. That means under the influence of something. It happened yesterday in Los Angeles. She seemed to be doing so well after
treatment. And we`ll get into it after we look back at her previous troubles.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These images of actress Amanda Bynes hiding behind a blonde wig and handcuffs, caused many to ask what happened to this Amanda?
Most recently playing a virtuous teen in 2010`s "Easy A."
AMANDA BYNES, ACTRESS: I`m not the one you have to answer to for your depraved behavior.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After that film, Bynes stepped away from acting and then into a series of legal problems. 2012 DUI driving case, three years`
probation for driving with a suspended license.
In New York, she was arrested for allegedly tossing a bong out the window of her apartment. An erratic series of tweets and two strange court
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett, from hiphollywood.com, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio,
and Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst and former special agent with the Secret Service.
Sam, give us some of the specifics here.
SCHACHER: OK. So, here`s what we know. Yesterday morning at around 4:00 a.m., Dr. Drew, she stopped in the middle of an intersection instead of
stopping rather at a light.
Now, the officer described her as disheveled. He also believed that she was under some sort of a substance, a drug. TMZ reports she was on a
stimulant. Police say she was cooperative during the entire process and she herself posted her $15,000 bail.
PINSKY: And, Sam, the DUI, so to speak, in California is different qualifications. Some say alcohol, some say substance. Some say others,
SCHACHER: Yes. No, you`re right. It could be marijuana. It could be a number of things.
PINSKY: We don`t know what.
PINSKY: TMZ reports also that the trouble started when her parents` temporary conservatorship ended.
Evy, I really thought her parents should have been commended for taking that conservatorship. What are your thoughts on -- first of all, why it
was temporary? And then the obviously, why it unraveled?
EVY POUMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, she`s an adult and they can probably only implement that for a significant amount of time, or
certain amount of time. And to go back to the drug arrest itself, or the - - if you look at the police report, it has actually an E attached to the code, and that symbolizes there was some type of stimulant that she was
most likely in her system, some of type of drug. And hopefully, that will come back and let us know what she was taking.
PINSKY: Evy, can I ask you -- when they put an E on there, does that necessarily mean stimulant and what do they base that?
POUMPOURAS: The E just means -- it can mean -- you know what? It can mean any drug, so to speak. The one thing it does not mean is alcohol.
POUMPOURAS: So it can be a different type of drug.
But there are reports coming in that they believe she was under a stimulant because of the way she was behaving and those indications are what led them
to give her that test.
PINSKY: I see.
POUMPOURAS: So, we see that in the code for her arrest.
PINSKY: I see.
POUMPOURAS: As far as her parents go, you know, her parents can only do so much. She is an adult, and at some point, they can`t control her as if she
were a child. They`re going to release her. You know, this supervision is not going to stay permanent.
PINSKY: Well, it can if somebody is really ill, but it`s not likely, you`re right, because people are allowed to be ill in this country. They
just don`t have to follow treatment. But when they don`t follow treatment, it`s a strange way we do things.
Now, Amanda`s Twitter went dark for months after that conservatorship was ordered, as we`ve been saying. That was August. The past May, she tweeted
about her beautiful sister. That was when she was being treated. Now, prior to treatment for a psychiatric condition, she sent a string of nasty
tweets to a bunch of celebrities, calling them ugly.
SCHACHER: You too.
PINSKY: I know, Sam, I got caught in the cross fire.
Leeann, you remember all that?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: I remember all that. I mean, it was just -- I have a hard time feeling sorry for somebody in her position, Dr.
Drew. You know, you have the world at your feet. You`re an actress. I mean, you`re not saving the world, you`re not doing brain surgery, you`re
not defending us on the front lines in the military. You are an actress and you`re being paid a lot of money.
So I have a hard time feeling sorry. I mean, I`m sure, I know you`re going to tell us that she has some sort of mental disorder. But when her parents
stepped in and it seemed that she was doing well -- I mean, the minute it seems that the conservancy or her parents watching over her was up, she
went right back at it. So, I really have a hard time just feeling sorry for that. I`m sorry.
PINSKY: Well, but you`re assuming that the substance. Maybe she just stopped taking her medication.
And, Sam, do you agree with that?
SCHACHER: I do, Dr. Drew.
TWEEDEN: Yes, what is the stimulant from when she was pulled over? What is that?
TWEEDEN: Well, maybe she was self-medicating herself. Here`s why I`m concerned, and I`m really rooting for Amanda Bynes. I feel for her, the
behavior she displayed to me is screaming mental illness. Plus, she was held on a 51-50 psychiatric hold. Her parents were granted
conservatorship. She did six months of treatment all on the basis of somebody that was demonstrating these symptoms of a severe mental illness.
Here`s where I`m concerned, though. Remember, Dr. Drew, in April, her mother came out and said, Amanda Bynes isn`t on medication, she doesn`t
need it. The girl doesn`t have a mental illness. If those were truthful statement, boy, to me, that is grave concern, because that girl, based on
everything that the state wanted to make sure that she went and got the necessary treatment, says that she would be on some sort of medication.
PINSKY: Right, and hen it goes to then -- Vanessa, it goes to a substance abuse problem.
Now, I want to ask you this, Vanessa -- there were some headlines just days before this all went down, declaring Amanda Bynes, quote, "dull and
boring", and, quote, "on the road to recovery." My question is, did that freak her out and that`s when she said, hey, the hell with you guys, I`m
going back to my drugs where I can be exciting and in the press?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I mean, aren`t those headlines quite the coincidence, Dr. Drew? All of a sudden, it`s like oh, Amanda Bynes is
dull and she`s boring and she doesn`t tweet, and she`s so much better, and she`s getting an apartment, and, yay, look at the story of success. These
are people behind the Amanda Bynes glow, and they`re behind the camp and they`re putting out these stories. They`re telling us what we should
PINSKY: Oh, you think it was already getting bad?
BARNETT: Absolutely. This is not an overnight situation at all.
People in her camp saw the unraveling, knew what was going to happen and they`ve tried to create the narrative before we did it ourselves.
Unfortunately, the story got out. We all know what it is, and that boring stuff -- they can keep it because ain`t nobody buying it now.
PINSKY: Well, all right.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, what are the chances that her parents can take back over? Or maybe somebody that the state appoints that are not her parents
that might actually make her take medication?
PINSKY: It depends on what this is. If the mom was speaking the truth to the press and she has no obligation to do that, that she doesn`t need
medication, this is addiction.
BARNETT: That wasn`t the truth.
PINSKY: Well, we don`t know what the truth is. I do think, though, this has an explanation and I think we ought to stand back a bit from poor
Amanda Bynes. I`ve been saying that from the beginning, and that`s how I got in trouble with Amanda. She started calling me ugly because I said
leave her alone. But let`s bring in the behavior bureau to get a good look at this.
And later, a really crazy story of a family found dead in their own home with no cause of death. We`ll get to that and more after this.
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PINSKY: Addiction can present as any psychiatric syndrome you can imagine. But this is a typical age when real significant mental illness can develop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clearly, she`s very talented. I can`t imagine it`s not mental illness. I don`t think being in the industry caused this, but
when you`re in the industry and you have access to everything and a lot of money, it exaggerates it and blows it up and everyone is there to watch
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau. Erica America, psychotherapist and TV host, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor at
Pepperdine University, and Heather McDonald, comedian and her stand up special, "I Don`t Mean to Brag" is currently on Showtime. We`re discussing
Amanda Bynes` recent DUI arrest.
Heather, do you think we were talking about -- I just want to say, I`ve got my own understanding of what`s happening to Amanda, at least a couple of
theories. I want to get from the panel what their thoughts are.
I`m going to start with you, Heather, we were talking about before the break, that whether or not she panicked after the headlines declared her
boring and she dismissed her team and went, I don`t want to do anything with you, guys, and went on to substances, or stop taking her meds or
whatever it was.
HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIAN: I mean, I think that -- God -- I just think -- it`s just -- her whole life is really sad. I remember being a comedienne
in my 20s and my manager said look at this girl, she`s a little girl doing standup at the laugh factory. This little girl was 10 and she was so much
further in the career than I am in my mid-20s.
PINSKY: She was actually doing standup?
MCDONALD: Yes, she did like a kid`s standup thing, but she was like a star. She just really had it and was really bright. I do always wonder
would this mental illness have reared its ugly head had she just been working at the gap and never had experience the same.
Clearly, her career slowed down when she started to act so strange, and now, I think that you`re right. I think she has mental illness that hasn`t
been addressed and now, she uses drugs daily and now she can`t get out of it.
PINSKY: Right. So, Erica, what do you think? Is it daily drugs? A combination of mental illness and addiction.
ERICA AMERICA, TV HOST: Yes, I mean, again, of course, we`re not treating her. But I think she needs long-term care for a combination of mental
illness, mixed with substance abuse. And I what happened was the year she spent with her parents gave her the structure, the conservatorship, give
her the structure to kind of be OK.
But I don`t think it had anything to do with that article. I really don`t. I think what happened was, just when the conservatorship was up and she was
left to her own devices, my favorite, Britney Spears, once the conservatorship was up, it never ended. The parents still have a hold on
everything that Britney does. What would happen if Britney was left to her own devices? She might have another Amanda Bynes.
PINSKY: That`s right.
AMERICA: You know what I`m saying? She kind of went. Right.
So, I think that -- one thing I want to say is, I found it very odd that the lawyer came out to say a couple months ago that she`s not on any
medication, as if that is something to be ashamed of. If she does have mental illness, that`s a very important part of the treatment plan. So, I
hope people aren`t keeping her from medication or the things that help her better.
PINSKY: Very, very interesting idea.
SCHACHER: I agree.
PINSKY: Yes, Sam, you want to comment on that?
SCHACHER: No, I agree 100 percent. Just going back to it, special now that we have some clinicians here on the panel, if somebody is undergoing
six months of treatment and was granted a conservatorship, as well as the 51-50 placed on that psychiatric hold, to you guys -- what normally falls
into that category to make them a candidate for that?
PINSKY: I`m going to speculate with Judy. The difference between say of Britney Spears, whose parents got an indefinite conservatorship, suggests
chronic mental illness, as opposed to when they get contemporary conservatorship, which is hard to get for addiction but it suggests
addiction and not mental illness.
Judy, do you agree with me on that?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You`re absolutely right, Dr. Drew. That`s usually the case. And, you know, unfortunately, for Amanda Bynes, and
actually for a lot of people who have addiction issues, as you know, Dr. Drew, you`re an expert in this area, most people who have addiction issues,
it`s a lifelong battle. You`re constantly dealing with that, dealing with triggers, using your coping skills.
And it`s like a landslide. If one thing happens, your whole entire treatment can go out the window and you`re not sober again. You have to
start over. So, this could be something going on with Amanda, as we know when she was arrested, she was on substances. And we don`t know exactly
what it was.
So, were the substances triggering things that look like mental illness? We hear that she had a stimulant. People on stimulants can become manic,
and become psychotic. So it could all be ultimately stimulant or that can precipitate a bipolar episode, someone who`s prone to bipolar. So, it`s
both, as Erica suggested.
But my concern is that the one downside to a conservatorship for addiction is -- well, it`s kind of a big one, is while you save the person`s life in
the short term, the necessary desire to get better doesn`t sometimes come from the individual. So, when the conservatorship ends, they don`t really
want to be sober. They`re just being held to their sobriety by the conservatorship.
So, you know -- well, in this country, Samantha, you`re allowed to use drugs until you die. That`s the nature of this country. You just can`t
say, I`m going to kill myself with drugs, which was crazy, you say I`m going to kill myself with drugs, or you say I`m Napoleon because I took
speed, figuratively, psychotic then we can hold you. But if you say, hey, leave me alone, I just want to use drugs, you`re entitled to do that. We
can`t just catch you with the drugs because we`ll put you in jail as opposed to the hospital. It`s just a crazy system.
HO: Well absolutely, and the conservatorship that she was under is much like the in-patient treatment. If you don`t have the right motivation when
you`re released from that in-patient facility, or released from conservatorship, then you`re on your own again.
So, if you haven`t learned the coping skills to manage yourself, then it`s like a policing that once it gets released, you`re on your own.
PINSKY: Which is OK -- which is OK, Heather, because sometimes their minds clear and they come to their senses and it turns out there was more mental
illness. Who knows? I mean, you got to get a sense of this. Go ahead.
MCDONALD: That`s why I think the whole thing with Britney Spears doing this show in Vegas is probably the best thing for her. She`s learned the
routine. She does the same thing every time, and it`s keeping her busy and she`s getting to be a star.
Unfortunately, Amanda is an actress, and no one is going to hire her in the movie with she`s unpredictable, you know?
PINSKY: Be careful, Heather, you`re speaking about Erica`s idol there.
PINSKY: Erica gets sensitive when you bring her up at all and she has to be in control of everything you say.
AMERICA: I feel like I have to say something, because I love her so much. I just want to say that I think that her parents are still very much a part
of her life, and involved.
PINSKY: Erica, I said from the beginning that her parents should take a tip of the hat. It angels rare parts take that position. They become so -
- parents are normally so fearful of destroying the relationship with the adult child that they let the adult child die of mental illness. Amanda`s
parents took a temporary conservatorship. I`m guessing this has to be a -- a big part of this must be addiction. The way the conservatorship was
setup. The way this is reoccurring now, the fact that we`re hearing he police report substances.
And, honey, Amanda, this has a treatment. You`ve got to want to get better. That`s the crazy thing about addiction. You have to hit bottom,
hopefully you`re there and you got to want to get better. There`s so much out there. There`s a lot of meetings with celebrities you can be part of,
where people can have anonymity and sobriety. Please do
Next up, a random beheading in this country, in the middle of this country. The suspect`s social media profile may have been a tipoff. Of course,
nobody said anything.
And later, a mystery that police can`t solve. How did a family of five die with no evidence of what happened?
Back after this.
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CALLER: It sounds like he`s running around out here.
CALLER: And that`s -- that`s a gunshot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect`s name is Alton Nolen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had just been fired from his job that day, only to return shortly afterward with a knife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Using a knife to sever the head of a woman in the front office and stabbing another woman several times.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he recently converted to Islam and tried to convert his coworkers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say Nolen had a Facebook profile under a different name, with posts appearing to support Islamic radicals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nolen posted a picture of a beheading and then mentioned Muslim extremists like Osama bin Laden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Leeann and Evy.
A beheading not in the Middle East but in middle America. The suspect survived that shooting and apparently cooperating, at least talking with
Sam, what do we have on this guy`s social profile?
SCHACHER: Oh my gosh! His social profile, Dr. Drew, is full of bright red waving flags. Now, it`s important to note that
|Alton Nolen to face death penalty, Colleen Hufford beheaded|
relatively normal social media profile. However, after that date, not so much. So, that`s when he started posting sufficient about extremist Islam.
We have some photos --
PINSKY: Sam, something happen in his life around that time?
SCHACHER: I know he was in jail. I`m not sure if that was the -- when he just got of jail.
PINSKY: There was substance present, wasn`t there? OK.
SCHACHER: He has quite the rap sheet.
Here`s some pictures we found on his Facebook page. A picture of the World Trade Center towers burning. A picture of Osama bin Laden, a picture of a
beheading, videos of beheadings. Pictures of explosions. Pictures of dead, bloody babies.
I can`t even say that. I can`t even articulate it. A picture of children with guns. Pictures of the KKK.
PINSKY: Very strange.
Now, Leeann, police say this was not motivated by terrorism per se, but it`s hard to ignore these Facebook posts. How do we reconcile that?
TWEEDEN: You know, Dr. Drew, this gets on my serves. Just like with Hasan at Ft. Hood, they called it workplace violence.
What the hell! I mean, seriously, this guy went in there and terrorized these people. It was an act of terrorism.
And for the politicians and for authorities to say, no, it was workplace violence, because they`re manipulating the English language and don`t want
to call it what it is. It`s not like it`s going to go away. OK, it`s finally -- it`s on our doorstep, it`s on our backyard, it`s happening to
our neighbors. He just beheaded a woman and was trying to do the same to another, and we`re calling it workplace violence. It`s disgusting, Dr.
PINSKY: Evy, do you agree?
POUMPOURAS: You know, I do agree with a lot of the things Leeann is saying. I can understand from the legal standpoint or the law enforcement
standpoint why they`re calling it workplace violence, because technically, they`re saying he didn`t have any direct affiliations with terrorists.
But I think that this is something we`re going see again. Leeann is correct. We`re going to see a lot of copycat. And this is an individual
influenced by terrorism.
PINSKY: Is that terrorism or is it just some sort of weird psychiatric phenomena or does it matter?
POUMPOURAS: We need to be careful because this is stuff that`s going to happen over and over again. I mean, think about it, Dr. Drew, it was just
several days ago that the New York City Police Department put out warnings and the Pentagon put out warnings telling everybody to be vigilant because
we had terrorist groups come out and say -- they were asking Westerners who empathize with them to commit acts of terrorism by themselves. So, as a
result, we had heightened our alert.
So what is this? This is something like that, of that nature.
PINSKY: Wow. You get that. I was in New York when that was going on and I remember feeling that stress.
But I think --
SCHACHER: I don`t think it`s a coincidence.
PINSKY: I think you would approach it differently if somebody is psychiatrically disturbed. And I`ll get a behavior bureau in here to
evaluate that. But he`s psychiatrically ill and influenced and amplified by the crazy images that are on Internet, versus somebody that has a
philosophy of living that include these sympathies. Those are very different -- you have to manage them very differently, no?
SCHACHER: Or it`s a combination of both. But, Dr. Drew, where is the people around him? I know he`s an adult. I know the family is describing
him as a good guy. But if you were to preach that on the Internet and he preaches it at the workplace, I`m sure he`s preaching it at home, too.
PINSKY: Vanessa, Samantha brought it up that before that imprisonment, he was -- he had a normal Facebook page where all of a sudden -- boom.
BARNETT: Unfortunately, it`s all too common that these people come home from being incarcerated and they have taken on a new religion, they have
taken on a new doctrine and they believe a whole new set of things.
I don`t blame this family. They were probably happy to have him home. They didn`t see the red flags because they`re not scrolling through his
Instagram and his Facebook, and looking for those types of things, and they have lives of their own.
SCHACHER: He talked about it at the workplace, though.
BARNETT: He did talk about it at the workplace. But I`m sure he talked about a million other things, like, if I tell you hey, you want to come to
bible study with me on Wednesday, you`re not going to think I`m trying to pull you into something that I`m doing. All I`m saying is that these
people can`t pick up on these so-called red flags that we have because they want to believe he`s a practicing Muslim now, or he`s adopted --
PINSKY: They were trying to be tolerant. Evy, what should we look for?
SCHACHER: Showing beheading videos over and over.
BARNETT: I`m not saying it`s right. It`s inappropriate. Nobody wants to look at a bloody baby. That`s not right. It`s not OK.
But you have grown up with this person for 20-some-odd years and they have one year of crazy, so-called, I won`t you used that word, but one year of
strange behavior and then --
SCHACHER: Call the authorities.
BARNETT: I know what it is to be a mother and want to defend your child from the world telling you that they know your child better than you do.
You just want to feel some type of --
PINSKY: I say crazy. I`m OK using that. There`s something going on in his brain, it makes sense to me.
POUMPOURAS: You know, Dr. Drew, I think the problem is, we have a lot of unfortunately -- here in the United States and in the U.K., we have a lot
of empathizers -- empathizers to terrorists, to ISIS, and herein lies the problem. We`re looking at Americans being recruited, leaving the United
States, going overseas to fight against our enemies. The same thing in the U.K. So this is where we`re struggling. So yes, we have got, all the
social media, all these warning flags, but now we are dealing with the problem here in the U.S. How do we stop this?
POUMPOURAS: A lot of what the terrorists are doing is they are using social media to recruit individuals very - I don`t agree with it, but it`s
very tactical, very smart on their part, and that`s where we need to hit them. We need to hit them in the way that they recruit and brainwash
people to commit these acts of terrorism.
PINSKY: So whether it`s a vulnerable population or not, we shouldn`t differentiate. I want to talk about the police officer that tried to
arrest Nolen four years ago for outstanding warrants. He then assaulted this officer, ran away from her and look at what she had to say now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wish I had killed him, you know? I never -- I was never afraid of him or would have. My thoughts and prayers are with those
victims and their families. I just can`t help but think that -- I just wish things were different, that`s all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa, there you go, right?
BARNETT: I mean Dr. Drew, all I thought about when I heard the report that he was living and he actually came out of a coma and was able to talk to
cops, I just thought to myself, damn, I wish that guy would have gone to target practice last week. Because then we wouldn`t have to deal with this
PINSKY: All right. Let me move on. The suspect`s mother, as you guys mentioned, defends her son. We`re going to hear from her. And later, what
to make of a family`s mystery death. Dr. Bill Lloyd is here with his theory of how this family -- I think it`s five people, just died with no
evidence of what went down. Back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He entered the business where he encountered the first victim, Colleen Hufford and began assaulting her with a knife. He did kill
Colleen, and did sever her head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and our behavior bureau Erica, Judy and Heather. We`re talking about the man who was accused of beheading a coworker after
this fire from the job. The suspect`s sister and mother defended him. I want to look at that Facebook post in just a second, but first, Heather, I
was thinking of you the whole time Evy was talking about how we have to attack these people in our country. You have a story where you did speak
up and what happened?
HEATHER MCDONALD: Well, I was on a walk in my neighborhood in the valley. And we have this area where you could like kind of hike around, and I came
across this woman and this man, both of Middle Eastern descent, and the woman was smoking. And that was the first thing I noticed where - it was
very dry brush, so that disturbed me. And I was just about to say something, like do you mind not smoking near this bush, in the drought, and
the guy said to her, he didn`t notice me, he said, ISIS is liberating, and was like talking about it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
MCDONALD: And so I kept walking, and then I said oh, my god, I was with my daughter and my son and my daughter had a phone and I called 911 and I
tried to explain what I heard, and to be honest, the 911 operator kind of just wissed (ph) me. She said, a lot of people are talking about ISIS.
And I`m like - I thought we are supposed to bring up when we hear something suspicious.
MCDONALD: This is the sentence I heard, was he writing a paper for "Sea Sun "(ph)? I don`t know. But this is what I heard, and there`s a couple
of clues that put it together, that it was not a positive thing, it was pro-ISIS .
MCDONALD: And - and hopefully I told them where they were and what the car looked like, and hopefully they went and checked them out. But I mean when
somebody calls, and you kind of want a little pat on the back .
MCDONALD: They`ve been begging us to do this.
PINSKY: We`ll give you a little applause out.
MCDONALD: Since 911.
PINSKY: Well done.
MCDONALD: And I think .
PINSKY: Although I`ve got to say not everyone knows around the country what Cal State University Northridge is .
PINSKY: It`s in California.
MCDONALD: Because we are here in the valley.
MCDONALD: They`re in an area near this college.
MCDONALD: So, I`m saying, you know, who knows, it could have been something innocent. But still, they could - hopefully they pulled them
over and just asked the questions and maybe .
MCDONALD: Track them, because that`s - odd behavior.
PINSKY: I just couldn`t help but keep thinking about that story. Whatever you say, we are going to talk, we are going to speak up. And Sam, you were
reporting all these Facebook posts that nobody seem to take action with. I mean there is so many examples of people sort of trying to be tolerant.
And not saying things. It`s mistake right now, there is an unraveling going on.
PINSKY: Now, look, who is that?
SCHACHER: You know, I was just going to respond to that - It`s all over social media. We just have to have our eyes open, because ISIS is very
sophisticated when it comes to social media.
PINSKY: Yes, now, I want to switch now back to the suspect`s sister and mother who defended this guy on this video posted on Facebook. Have a
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I know what they`re saying that he done, but I`m going to tell you this, that`s not my son. There`s two sides to every
story, and we`re only hearing one. His family, our hearts bleed right now, because what they`re saying Alton has done. I want to apologize to both
families, because this is not Alton.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Erica, they may have been in denial about what happened to him, but he - it may not really be him, but he`s in such an altered state, he
was influenced violence material and off he went.
ERICA AMERICA: Yeah. I mean I feel for them, they`re hurt, they are shocked, but look, Charles Manson, he was a songwriter. I`m sure you show
that lovely side to a lot of people, but that doesn`t mean he wasn`t a cult leader who told people to kill people. So, there`s different size of
people. He might have had a mental illness. He might have been delusional. He also, obviously, has - aficionado (ph) of the ISIS thing
and the beheadings and Osama bin Laden. So, I think the combination of the two things, you know, possible mental illness with, you know, watching
beheadings, he probably was influenced in that way to do that.
PINSKY: People would think they are vulnerable. But Heather, you want to say something?
MCDONALD: I was just going to say, it was interesting that she brought up the Charlie Manson thing, because I was thinking the same thing. I was
like oh my god, you know, these people were influenced to murder a certain way .
MCDONALD: Were told to. And did it.
MCDONALD: And I feel like absolutely he was influenced by this and seeing it and felt like he was doing the right thing because he was so sucked into
PINSKY: Now, Judy, hang on there, Judy, I want you to help me try to explain this. This guy had like Jesus Christ tattooed on his chest, then
he had Arabic words on his chest. So, help people understand the difference between religiously motivated violence and religiosity
associated with the psychotic illness. They are different things. I mean - they influence and overlap each other, and they end up in the same place.
But I think this is psychosis with religiosity. No?
HO: Thank you, Dr. Drew. I was just going to bring that up. You know, putting together the family stories of this kind man and how this doesn`t
fit his profile and the fact that one of his arrests was a cocaine possession charge. So, what we know about cocaine users that about half of
them actually end up experiencing stimulant psychosis. And when you have stimulant psychosis, Dr. Drew, there`s a number of different symptoms,
including thought disorder, delusions, hallucinations and notably aggression. And most of the times when somebody is feeling victimized, as
this man has described himself to be, feeling disenfranchised, well, religion is a powerful organization that helps this person sometimes to
feel more powerful. And more assertive again. And it can just go haywire when somebody has psychosis. And a thought disorder associated with that.
PINSKY: Sam, you get that?
SCHACHER: Yeah, and that`s what is so scary, Dr. Drew, is that ISIS is literally preying on these people by utilizing social media.
PINSKY: The vulnerable. Right.
SCHACHER: Yes. The vulnerable.
SCHACHER: And that to me - wow, I don`t know how we can put a stop to that. I think it`s far.
PINSKY: Well, we end up in the same - but here`s the two things we can do. We can get very aggressive with how we handle these people once their
behavior or manifestations end up in violence. That`s one thing you can do, is put it very severe consequences, so people are aware that`s what
goes on if you transgress, but the other thing is to raise awareness of what it looks like when somebody is getting into trouble. When people
become psychotic and agitated, whether it`s drugs or mania, or both, they start to preoccupy sometimes about religious grandiosity and they get very
agitated around religion. And if you intervene then you can bring them back to earth and they don`t have to go to where this guy went. And once
he goes there, God help him. All right? I mean that`s - We all agree on that tonight.
All right. We`re going to switch up, talk about a very strange mystery of an entire family that died unexplainably. The police want to know what
happened. We want to know. We`ll be back with it after this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two parents and three of their children, all at once, and we don`t know what caused it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Five members of the Strack family were found dead in their home Saturday night. It was an older son who made the tragic
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went down a couple of doors to a grandma`s, his grandma`s house. And then he and the grandparents came back over, the
grandma came back over and that`s when they discovered the family. No sign of violent trauma. There were no, for example, gunshots or stab wounds, or
anything like that.
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Evy and joining us surgeon pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd. This was our most tweeted story of the day. A mother, father,
three of their children found dead together in the parent`s bedroom. One surviving son, the oldest, as you heard from that police report, discovered
this tragedy. Police say the bodies showed no signs of trauma. They tested for carbon monoxide in the air, but found none. Dr. Lloyd, does
that rule out carbon monoxide as the cause of death?
BILL LLOYD, SURGEON & PATHOLOGIST: Absolutely not. Remember, the door was open when the little boy went down the street. What we have to define is
this event, was it really an accident or was it intentional? Different categories and different things to think about. If it was intentional, did
it involve poisoning of some kind? If it was accidental, it could be poisoning as well. You mentioned carbon monoxide. You know, we need blood
in our body to carry oxygen to all our tissues and carbon monoxide interferes with that oxygen binding and you can`t get the oxygen you need
to think, to beat your heart, to work your kidneys, et cetera.
LLOYD: You should think about that.
PINSKY: Wait, before you do that, I want to get to the carbon monoxide. Wouldn`t it be easy just to do a blood test and look for the carbon
monoxide saturation in hemoglobin? Wouldn`t they know that already?
LLOYD: Well, they certainly could. Look for the carbon - hemoglobin. It`s an easy test.
LLOYD: You have - your answer in minutes. Also, by the way, the physical findings - anyone with carbon monoxide poisoning is usually beat red at the
PINSKY: Yes, that sherry red blood.
LLOYD: And most people .
PINSKY: Cherry blood.
LLOYD: . have the headache.
PINSKY: The cherry red blood is the characteristic thing.
LLOYD: And that young child is going to be loaded with useful information. For example, did he have a headache? Because that would be the very first
symptom of carbon monoxide poisoning. So, you think about accidental things, other things as well, low voltage electrocution. They were all in
the same room. And you can have an electrical problems, somehow gotten to the bed, and they could have all developed a low voltage electrocution,
never have any symptoms and you`ll never find anything on the autopsy.
PINSKY: Wow. Wow. I know, Evy, you have always a way of thinking in a sinister fashion. We love you, but. And so, what occurs to you when you
hear this story?
POUMPOURAS: Thank you, I think.
POUMPOURAS: This is the one thing regarding the situation that I`m uncomfortable with. Is that they were all in the same room. What are the
chances of a family like that collectively being all in the same room and then that happening? It almost seems like they were all gathered possibly,
and then escorted into that room and, you know, again, I hate to say this, but almost in a ceremonious way, maybe this is a possible family suicide.
I think if they had all been scattered throughout the house and deceased, then I would have - I would have leaned more towards the carbon monoxide
POUMPOURAS: But when I see them all gathered in one area, it seems almost like they were gathered there intentionally. Just something to think
PINSKY: And Samantha, you go with that as well?
SCHACHER: I agree. That`s what alarmed me. Is that here are some three teenagers and their parents all gathered in one room? So, I have a lot of
unanswered questions. Maybe they were all watching TV, the TV was on, were they - were they sleeping?
PINSKY: Of course, right.
SCHACHER: So we need to get the answers to those questions. I`m hoping that it was an accident.
PINSKY: Or Vanessa, I suppose one of them could have been the sinister element in this, right?
BARNETT: Well, unfortunately, I too thought it was odd that they were all in the same room, but if this was a family suicide, as Evy said then they
did exclude the oldest son. I believe he`s the oldest son. They did exclude him. And so that struck me as odd. And then also I was wondering
maybe were they scared of something? Were they - I heard that the front and the back door were open. Maybe they did smell gas or they smelled
something and thought to air it out and then all go to the back room and be safer there. There`s just so many questions. I really want - I want it to
be an accident and not something intentional.
SCHACHER: Me too.
PINSKY: All right, we`re going to take a quick break. I want to thank everyone for helping us reach an important milestone on Instagram. This is
a completely different topic from what we`ve been discussing so far. And you can find us on Instagram any time at Dr. Drew, HLN, we`re going to keep
this conversation going. We`ll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Went in and found the five people in the family were all deceased.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was an older son who made the tragic discovery. Five members of the Strack family were found dead in their home Saturday
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I read that it was them, it was like a part of me was gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, and Dr. Bill Lloyd. We are talking about a teenage boy who found his parents and three siblings dead inside their
home, all huddled in one room. Sam, does the social media tell us anything about this family?
SCHACHER: Well, the extended family did set up a memorial page on Facebook in honor of them. And DR. Drew, I see nothing but positive memories from
friends and neighbors, compliments about the parents and their children, how full of life they were, how positive they were. No red flags here.
PINSKY: Vanessa, grandma and eldest son, if this was a ritual, they left them out, that doesn`t fit either, does it?
BARNETT: It doesn`t. And you just - it doesn`t make any sense. I know we are just trying to put what pieces we have together, but if this was
something that they wanted to take out the entire family, unfortunately if that was the case, then it makes no sense to leave out the older son,
unless there`s a specific reason or unless I saw a tweet. I`ve seen tweets where people are asking me if he was involved in any way. I think people
really just want some sort of answers.
PINSKY: Dr. Lloyd, you`re kind of nodding your head to that. I guess that`s a possibility. But the other thing I want to ask you, was there
were pets found wandering around alive, doesn`t that mitigate the probability of carbon monoxide or other poisons?
LLOYD: Well, it depends on the house, where the pets were at the time before the door was open. If they weren`t in the bedroom.
LLOYD: Then they not have been endangered. They may have been doing some renovations, Drew. A common chemical that`s used in floor strippers and
paint thinners, is methylene chloride and if it`s inhaled through sufficient degree while you are decorating the house, it will acutely
poison the liver and guess what, it elevates your blood carbon monoxide levels. Maybe they left the door open because they were doing some
PINSKY: And that would cause us - that sounds like a slower kind of death, though. With the panic (ph) dysfunction.
LLOYD: Oh, no.
PINSKY: No, it`s a quick thing?
LLOYD: No, no, it happens right at the jobsite.
LLOYD: And if it`s right in the job side, you work in the house all day, it accumulates. And something - oh, that smell is horrible, open the door.
Too late, it`s already in your system.
PINSKY: What was it again? Methyl .
LLOYD: Once it gets to .
PINSKY: Let`s all hear what that was. You said methylene chloride, is that what that was?
LLOYD: Methylene chloride. Methylene chloride. We`ve all been in a stinky house - fresh paint job or new floors. People want to ask were they
survivalists. Maybe they had, you know, big barrel of grain in the basement, maybe it was - but not so, the liver damage from that makes you
PINSKY: That`s - yeah.
LLOYD: It makes you ill, makes you vomit, makes you .
PINSKY: Yeah. Yellow and stuff. All right. Evy, you`re my law enforcement presence here. Did you have an instinct on this? If you are
assessing this, you walked into this case, does your spidey sense tell you anything? Especially based on what Dr. Lloyd has told us? What our
conversation has been, anything sort of inform you?
POUMPOURAS: There`s a couple of things I would look at. First of all, obviously when we talked about the bodies being in the room, I also want to
know were they engaged in any type of activity. That will let us know if they were actually doing something together as the family, or how were the
bodies laid out? Were they laid out side by side? That will give us a clue. In addition to that, we want to get the full toxicology for the
obvious reasons. And I would want to interview in depth the son. It`s the son who will let us know, the surviving son, if there were any issues
within the family, anything is going on and perhaps if he, and I don`t want to speculate, but as it was brought up earlier, would he possibly be
culpable in any way? All those things together, you`re going to have the answers. We just don`t have them at this moment. But you will have the
answers. I don`t think this will be an unsolved case.
PINSKY: Sam, last thoughts?
SCHACHER: I had - last thoughts, this is tragic. But I had a tweet wondering if black mold could contribute.
PINSKY: No, no, no, no.
SCHACHER: That would be slower?
PINSKY: No, it`s not even ..
LLOYD: It takes too much time.
PINSKY: Yes. It takes too much time, in that cause - that cause .
LLOYD: Everybody, check you CO meter.
PINSKY: Yes, get carbon monoxide meters. A great point here. Black mold causes inflammatory process in the lungs.
LLOYD: Check it tonight. Check it tonight.
PINSKY: I agree. I have carbon monoxide. It`s an insidious process, and there are ways to..
PINSKY: See it in the home.
PINSKY: OK. And you are going to watch us anytime. Be sure to join us in the after show at Facebook. We`ll talk about Amanda Bynes and more.
Forensic files up now.