Friday, July 5, 2013

Watch George Zimmerman trial July 2, 2013 (videos, transcripts)

Officer Chris Serino testifies
On July 2, 2013, George Zimmerman returned to the Seminole County courthouse for the seventh day of his second-degree murder trial. The following witnesses testified: Sanford Police detective Chris Serino, George Zimmerman's best friend Mark Osterman, Jacksonville, Florida chief medical examiner Dr. Valerie Rao and Seminole County finger print expert Kristen Benson.

You may watch the day's full trial coverage in the video player below. You will also find a transcript beneath the video.




 





Live Coverage of the George Zimmerman Trial

Aired July 2, 2013 - 09:30 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: -- let everyone know you're the person in charge, correct?

DET. CHRIS SERINO, SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: In that context, you're not actually yelling at the person like you're angry with them, are you?

SERINO: No.

O'MARA: It's a technique to gain control of a situation. Correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Similar in the challenge interview, it's not as though in this context you're actually angry with Mr. Zimmerman, correct?

SERINO: No, anger is not a part of it, no.

O'MARA: Right. It's just a technique or a tactic that you use to try and undermine his confidence in his own story so that you can see if he breaks, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: That's the purpose of it, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: So that when you challenge him -- an example, you said to him, you sound kind of frustrated on the phone conversation. Everyone's going to hear these things, you know, what was your purpose in that?

SERINO: Which phone conversation? (INAUDIBLE) On which phone conversation?

O'MARA: I presume, having read the entirety of your interview, that you're talking about how he sounded on the non-emergency call.

SERINO: Okay.

O'MARA: Was that in an attempt to sort of, again, undermine his confidence in himself so that you might get some movement in his story?

SERINO: Not necessarily. I mean, it could have been. I'm not quite certain what my comment might have been and what tone I might have used.

O'MARA: Okay. Would you then defer for the jury's consideration to the (INAUDIBLE) what you presented yourself in the challenge interview rather than just me going over or repeating it in sort of bare words?

SERINO: Yes, sir, yes.

O'MARA: You agree your purpose was to challenge Mr. Zimmerman?

SERINO: It could have been, yes, sir.

O'MARA: Try to undermine his confidence in himself, such that he might tell you more or change his story in some way, which would then give you an opening, correct?

SERINO: I would classify more trying to extract truth if he's hiding it, yes, sir.

O'MARA: Sure. And did you extract any truth or anything, any change in his story through this technique?

SERINO: No, sir, I did not.

O'MARA: He was, in fact, consistent throughout, correct?

SERINO: Yes, he was.

O'MARA: He was also consistent with both all of his prior statements, correct?

SERINO: To my knowledge, yes.

O'MARA: As the chief investigating officer, you had availability of those prior statements, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: There were some changes. I think you said yesterday there were certainly some expansions and even some minor inconsistencies, right?

SERINO: Yes, there was some, yes, there was some variations of accounts.

O'MARA: Nothing that you considered significant.

SERINO: Nothing major, no.

O'MARA: Nothing that evidenced to you that he was lying to you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, your honor. Improper argument.

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON, SANFORD FLORIDA: Sustained.

O'MARA: Any inconsistencies you consider to be significant?

SERINO: None which I can challenge him with, so I would say no.

O'MARA: With some help, hopefully this will work, I'm going to play with you a portion of the tape that you heard yesterday. I understand that it's -- I'm going to play it. If you can't hear it, I'll play it a second time. I believe this is a part to focus you on the investigation where you are playing for Mr. Zimmerman the 911 call, which has the screams in the background, to put it in context. I'm going to try to get the volume correct here. I may need a couple tries. Sorry. It is 182. It is the --

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it a male or female?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is a male.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't know why?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't know why they are yelling help.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

O'MARA: Did you hear Mr. Zimmerman?

SERINO: I'd have to hear it again.

O'MARA: Sure. I'm going to keep it low, your honor, until we get back to that point.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

(INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here to work with you here, okay? Got to open your mind, okay, if there's anything that needs to be changed --

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your honor, I ask you play at the same level so that the jury can establish a context.

(CROSSTALK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can't do this anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, do you need police or medical?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hear that voice in the background?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I'm not sure, but I hear someone screaming.

UNIDENIFIED FEMALE: 911, do you need police or medical?

UNIDEIFIED FEMALE: Maybe both, I'm not sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hearing screaming (INAUDIBLE)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

O'MARA: In the transcript, and I think it was pointed out on two occasions by Mr. De La Rionda yesterday that there was a suggestion that Mr. Zimmerman said doesn't even sound like me. do you remember that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Is it your opinion -- your opinion, did you interpret that, that Mr. Zimmerman was denying that it was him or just that it simply didn't sound like him?

UNIDENIFIED MALE: Your honor, I'm going to object just to having this witness testify about what the defendant was thinking based on what he said.

NELSON: Sustained.

O'MARA: Did that change the direction of your interrogation of him, that statement that he said, doesn't even sound like me, did that change the direction of your interrogation of him at all?

SERINO: No, it did not.

O'MARA: Did that cause you any concern whatsoever?

SERINO: No, it did not.

O'MARA: If I might just have a moment, your honor. I want to make sure that I get the --

(END LIVE FEED)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We're heading back to the courtroom. Zimmerman's lead defense attorney is asking Detective Serino about comments he made during the investigation that George Zimmerman's wounds appeared minor. Let's listen.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

O'MARA: And you saw him on the 27th after midnight, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And then he went to work the next day and then saw you for the 27th in the afternoon for the recreation of the recreation video, correct? SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Then he came back to talk with you, again, voluntarily, on the 29th, correct?

SERINO: That's correct.

O'MARA: And did you talk with him after that?

SERINO: Yes, we had conversations.

O'MARA: And that was over the phone?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Did you talk to him again in person?

SERINO: Not that I can recall.

O'MARA: When you spoke to him on the phone, that was in order to, again, sort of forward your investigation of both the crime and the defenses to it, correct?

SERINO: I believe he contacted me, but, yes, the ultimate goal would have been to forward the investigation.

O'MARA: And all of his -- in all of his communications with you, even after the 29th, he was cooperative?

SERINO: Yes, he was.

O'MARA: Answered any questions you had from him?

SERINO: Yes, he did.

O'MARA: Presented himself to do whatever it is that you wanted him to do?

SERINO: Yes, he did.

O'MARA: You have done even more than just take the interviews of my client as part of your investigation in this case, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir, from other aspects of the investigation, yes.

O'MARA: Met with other witnesses?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: You met with Tracy Martin, correct?

SERINO: Yes, I did.

O'MARA: At your office?

SERINO: Yes, there and at his residence also -- the residence (INAUDIBLE) yes.

O'MARA: Why did you meet with him at your office?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, beyond the scope of direct and calls for hearsay, too.

O'MARA: Actually --

NELSON: Let me take them one at a time. It was not covered in direct. It's not hearsay, the question and the answer that it would elicit. I have to sustain on wasn't covered --

O'MARA: May I respond?

NELSON: Yes, you may.

O'MARA: I would just allow a little bit of leeway for the chief investigating officer in the case to ask him what else that he has done in doing exactly his duties.

NELSON: You could do that in your case.

O'MARA: So I will call him as my witness.

NELSON: If you choose to do so.

O'MARA: Then I will do that. Thank you, your honor. And I need to get this back to the clerk. If I can just have a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

NELSON: Redirect?

O'MARA: I actually do know how to use a laptop on occasion. Thank you very much.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Good morning, sir.

SERINO: Good morning, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm not going to ask you to the opinion of anybody or to guilt or anything, understand it's improper and I can't ask you that.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: My question is --

O'MARA: Let me object, your honor, as to that non-question of this witness. A comment under the previous ruling, which is inappropriate.

NELSON: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: My question is, Mr. O'Mara, on behalf of the defendant as council, asked you some questions about anger and disdain, do you remember that, about ill will, hatred, all that stuff?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you remember him asking you a series of questions regarding that?

SERINO: To somewhat, yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Specifically asked you about your interview with the defendant, that you had reviewed it, and also Investigator Singleton's interview and whether you found any evidence of hatred, spite, anger, disdain, ill will, do you recall a series of questions regarding that?

SERINO: Somewhat, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: I want to play something for you, sir. If I can figure out how to do this. (INAUDIBLE) Okay. Okay. First play from the non-emergency call the defendant made.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN, DEFENDANT: These assholes. They always get away.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Is that something you would use in reference to somebody that you're going to invite over for dinner, would you call them these -- does that seem like, to you, a --

SERINO: No, sir, it's not.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: He goes straight in --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, which entrance is that that he's heading towards?

ZIMMERMAN: The back entrance.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Did you hear that last comment the defendant stated? (AUDIO BREAK) is (AUDIO BREAK) are you saying are you to testify when you were cross-examined that those two, these (AUDIO BREAK) Trayvon Martin for dinner that night?

O'MARA: Excuse me, your honor, that would be speculation.

NELSON: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: Are you saying that those words were uttered by a defendant in reference to wanting to meet the victim?

O'MARA: Excuse me, your honor, that would be speculation.

DE LA RIONDA: I'll be glad to rephrase it. Does that not indicate ill will, hatred, and spite against somebody else, sir? SERINO: No, it does not.

DE LA RIONDA: In your opinion, calling somebody a (AUDIO BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) Punks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you following him?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay, we don't need you to do that.

ZIMMERMAN: Okay.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, sir, what is your name?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Sir, you were asked by Mr. O'Mara on behalf of the defendant in terms of whether it was evidence that he followed him or not, do you recall being asked that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And you recall and you in fact, to use Mr. O'Mara's words, challenge the defendant regarding that. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes sir.

DE LA RIONDA: -- about whether the defendant was following him, or not. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you hear the word there by the non-emergency operator about whether he was following him or not?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And did the operator not tell the defendant not to do that?

SERINO: In so many words, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Ok.

In your interviews in review of investigator Singleton's interviews -- sure -- sorry. In your interview and review of Singleton's interviews, did the defendant, in your interviews of him, did he ever say he was excited? You want me to rephrase -- I'll be glad to rephrase it. I apologize.

In your interview, and also your review of investigator Singleton's interview of the defendant, which you've had an opportunity to do, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. O'Mara asked you about those and did the defendant ever indicate that he was happy that there were burglaries being committed at the retreat at Twin Lakes?

SERINO: No, he did not.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he ever say he was excited that his neighborhood was getting burglarized?

SERINO: No, he did not.

DE LA RIONDA: In fact, didn't he say this, sir --

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the correct one?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (inaudible). Are you looking for it? you tell me the story. You tell me what happened that night. Ok?

ZIMMERMAN: Just that night?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes whatever led up to this. Anything you want to tell me about what happened and why it ended up what it ended up to, this -- this boy got shot.

ZIMMERMAN: The neighborhood has had a lot of crimes. My wife saw our neighbors get broken into, and she got scared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you're talking about the residents or vehicles?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The residents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I decided to start a neighborhood watch program in my neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, what is the name of the neighborhood?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Retreat at Twin Lakes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Now, investigator -- I'm sorry, Singleton asked the defendant what led up to this in terms of the shooting, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And that's how you replay, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir, it is. (BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neighborhood watch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok.

ZIMMERMAN: Sergeant Parks, Officer Buchanan and I am the coordinator. And there's been a few times where I've seen a suspicious person in the neighborhood. We call the police, the non-emergency line, and these guys always get away --

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What made them suspicious?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall hearing that in terms of investigator Singleton asking him, the defendant, about what was going on and he's stating, as he stated there, that they always get away?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you follow that?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Didn't he say that to the nonemergency operator also, but he used more colorful language? (AUDIO BREAK) -- within minutes of the actual shooting, weren't they?

SERINO: Yes, they were.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: I called before and police had come out, but these guys know the neighborhood very well and cut in between buildings.

DET. DORIS SINGLETON, SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT: You're saying these guys. Who are these guys?

ZIMMERMAN: The people committing the burglaries.

SINGLETON: So you've seen more than one person like looking suspicious and doing these burglaries?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, ma'am.

SINGLETON: Ok.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Now, investigator Singleton had him clarify when the defendant in that interview on the 26th stated these guys, you had him clarify or describe what he meant, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And the defendant said the people committing these burglaries, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And then to the nonemergency operator earlier that evening, when he spotted Trayvon Martin, he made reference to using -- (AUDIO BREAK). So when Mr. O'Mara asked you about profiling, isn't it accurate that he was profiling Trayvon Martin as a criminal? He assumed that he was a criminal that night?

O'MARA: Objection, your honor that would call for speculation.

NELSON: Sustained as speculation.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall Mr. O'Mara asking you about whether he was profiling the defendant -- I'm sorry, Trayvon Martin?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: If somebody were to believe that another person is a criminal, could that be a form of profiling?

O'MARA: Objection your honor, that would be either speculation or irrelevant.

NELSON: Overruled.

DE LA RIONDA: If I were to believe that you're a criminal and I followed you and did something, wouldn't that be profiling you?

O'MARA: Object, based upon improper opinion testimony unless we're opening that door.

NELSON: He can testify if he knows in his experience as a law enforcement officer.

O'MARA: As long as we're going to his opinions.

DE LA RIONDA: Let me make sure it is clear. If I were to believe that somebody was committing a crime, could that not be profiling that person --

O'MARA: Object, your honor, leading.

NELSON: Overruled as to leading.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you understand my question, sir?

SERINO: Yes, I do. It could be construed as such, yes. Construed as such, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Your review of the evidence there, was there any indication that Trayvon Martin, Trayvon Benjamin Martin, the young man I think 20 days past, had just turned 17, was committing a crime that evening, sir?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Was there any evidence that that young man was armed?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: You were asked by Mr. O'Mara several times, and I think he made reference to your last interview being a challenged interview, I think. I don't know if you completely agreed with him on that or just agreed to use his terminology on that. Did you agree that that was a challenging interview?

SERINO: I wouldn't quite classify it as that. However, it could be viewed as a challenging interview, based on his view of it.

DE LA RIONDA: Ok his being Mr. O'Mara's?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Let's assume for purposes -- let's call it a challenging interview, but you know what I'm referencing to --

(CROSSTALK)

SERINO: Exactly.

DE LA RIONDA: -- your last interview with the defendant on February 29th.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Ok and Mr. O'Mara asked you whether there was inconsistencies or not.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Ok. And I want to play certain parts of you where I believe you at least questioned him about whether he had said something inaccurate before or said something different. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And I want to ask you about these, if I could.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, we got them on the way. Just let me know if there's anything else.

(AUDIO BREAK)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall you playing that recording for the defendant and asking him about that? Somebody may refer that to a challenge. Do you recall questioning him about that?

SERINO: I -- yes, sir, I pointed it out to him.

DE LA RIONDA: And he made reference to when he made (AUDIO BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: Told me not to follow him. And I wasn't following them, I was just --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So basically you were off --

ZIMMERMAN: Right. I was on the other side.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: You were questioning him, pointing out an inconsistency, were you not, that the defendant was claiming he was not following him and you were telling him that's following him, correct? Do you recall saying that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Running, getting out of my car to make sure I don't lose sight of this guy. That's what it sounds like. Are you following him? That's what it sounds like you're doing. That's why he asked you the question. It sounded to the dispatcher like you were running and that's why he asked you that question, are you following him, and your answer is yes, ok.

But then you get to the other side and you're concerned about walking past this guy when you've already been chasing him essentially. He's telling you to go back to your car and now you want to pretend -- or not pretend, you want us to believe that you're concerned about having a flashlight to go back where you just ran. Do you know what I'm saying?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall you and investigator Singleton questioning you about that.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: About there could possibly be an inconsistency about what the evidence showed?

SERINO: I think it's to see (inaudible) -- I think he was using his words to clarify.

DE LA RIONDA: And by the way, while we're at this point, Mr. O'Mara asked you about videotaping. Do you recall that you had questioned the defendant about videotaping and you showed him the victim's camera that was at the scene near where his body was? Do you recall that? SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And you stated, I believe, on direct and cross examination that you were bluffing him. You were telling him that the victim had potentially videotaped the whole thing?

SERINO: At that point that was a bluff.

DE LA RIONDA: Correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And you knew that not to be true, correct?

SERINO: At that point, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And my point is, and the defendant made a comment like, oh, I hope to God that it was videotaped. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir, I do.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. O'Mara asked you about stores and other places that have videotapes out there, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Now, the defendant, I believe you've already testified, was head of the neighborhood watch, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And had lived in that neighborhood for a while, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: So he would have been aware whether there was videotaping or not in any of those buildings, correct?

SERINO: I would assume so, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And I know you weren't there when it happened. But you would agree that the interaction between a defendant and the victim in this case, the defendant was aware of whether the victim, before he got shot, took out the video and videotaped the defendant, correct?

O'MARA: Objection, your honor. I would object, that would be speculation.

NELSON: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: Was there any evidence that the victim before he got shot said hold on, before you shoot me, let me take out my camera and take a picture of you as you're shooting me.

SERINO: No, there was none. DE LA RIONDA: Was there any evidence that the victim, as the defendant was following him, said hold on, I'm going to take a photograph of you so there will be a record before you shoot me that you're following me?

O'MARA: We object, your honor, that was asked and answered.

NELSON: Overruled.

DE LA RIONDA: Was there any evidence that the victim, as the defendant was following him, said hold on, stop right there, let me take a photograph of you or let me videotape you before you shoot me -- or before you follow me and then shoot me?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And so when Mr. O'Mara asked you about whether the defendant knew that or not, he would have known that, correct?

SERINO: I would assume so, yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: So he basically knew you were bluffing is what I'm getting at?

O'MARA: Objection, your honor. That would be speculation.

NELSON: Sustained.

DE LA RIONDA: Let me play another recording for you, if I could, sir.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were concerned about having a flashlight to move back where you just ran?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're looking for --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know what I'm saying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It sounded you're looking --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You brought a flashlight with you?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You wanted to go see him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You wanted to catch the bad guy? (AUDIO BREAK). we are in a whole different area right here. This is where --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: You were questioning him about what he had said, about evidence, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir. DE LA RIONDA: Is that what you were doing there?

SERINO: Yes, sir.



Zimmerman's Police Interview Played; Detective: Zimmerman Seemed Frustrated

Aired July 2, 2013 - 10:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, LEAD PROSECUTOR: Is that what you were doing there?

DETECTIVE CHRIS SERINO, LEAD INVESTIGATOR IN ZIMMERMAN'S CASE: Yes, sir.

(AUDIO TAPE PLAYING)

SERINO: Do you recall at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to you shooting him he was on you, correct?

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN: Yes.

SERINO: And you shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right?

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, sir.

SERINO: And nobody came out to help you that night. I can't pinpoint where you were smothered. That's the problem I'm having. Nobody is saying they saw him smothering you. They saw him on top of you, but they didn't see the smothering part.

ZIMMERMAN: It doesn't sound like there's a hesitation in the screaming, it sounds like it's continuous. We don't hear it stop.

(END AUDIO TAPE)

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall you and Investigator Singleton challenge, to use Mr. O'Mara's words, challenging him about whether he was being smothered or not?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: If I can have a moment, your honor. Do you recall watching on direct and then on cross examination, I believe it was on direct, I apologize, being asked questions about the videotaping, the re-enactment?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: That occurred on the 27th. Do you recall that, when you took him back out to the scene? Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir. DE LA RIONDA: You were present for that, is that correct?

SERINO: Yes, I was.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall at some point the defendant walking -- as he's walking, he's walking the route where he claimed he went. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. And do you recall him at some point saying that he went to look for an address and there were no addresses to the left because those were the back of the buildings. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. And I'm going to try to key to this point specifically, but do you recall --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: I think I told the operator --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZIMMERMA: He said are you following -- for a street sign.

SERINO: Right.

ZIMMERMAN: So I got out of my car and I started walking.

SERINO: Go ahead.

ZIMMERMAN: I was still on the phone with nonemergency, and I started walking.

SERINO: OK.

ZIMMERMAN: This way. Because I didn't see a street sign here, but I knew if I went straight through, that that's true view circle and I could give him an address. He said just give me an address of the house that you're in front of, and there's no address because this is the back of the houses.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall that testimony, sir?

SERINO: Yes, sir, I do.

DE LA RIONDA: Sir, do you recall --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZIMMERMAN: I don't know an address. They asked me where he went, what direction, and I said I don't know. Then I thought to get out --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DE LA RIONDA: Right there on that corner, do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: I want to show you a photograph of the front of Miss Lauer's residence. Isn't there a numerical address right there in the front of her house?

SERINO: Yes, there is.

DE LA RIONDA: Isn't her address 1211, sir?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Stay right there on that photograph. So the defendant in that re-enactment, when he's pointing at all the back of these houses, where he's claiming he doesn't have an address, there's an address right there staring at him, isn't that true, sir?

SERINO: Yes, there is.

MARK O'MARA, ZIMMERMAN'S DEFENSE LAWYER: That would be leading. This is still redirect.

DE LA RIONDA: I'll be glad to rephrase the question.

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON: Thank you.

DE LA RIONDA: When the defendant points to this side and saying there's no address because it's the back of the house, right to the right, what is there? Is there a house with an address?

SERINO: Yes, there is.

DE LA RIONDA: For the record State's Exhibit 33. Let me show you State's Exhibit number 1, and I'm going to put a close up of part of that. For the record, State's Exhibit number 1 is an aerial photograph of the retreat at Twin Lakes, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And as you pointed out when you were, used Mr. O'Mara's words, challenging the defendant in that interview, you pointed out there was only three actual streets in the whole neighborhood, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And this street the defendant claims he does not know is twin Tree Lane, which is the main entrance that you come in and out of that retreat at Twin Lakes. And right here that I'm pointing to is Miss Lauer's address, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: So the defendant in that interview claims that he did not know this street and didn't happen to see the address here, but specifically did not know this street, correct?

SERINO: Yes, correct.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. Thank you, your honor. Do you recall also on cross examination defense counsel asking you about inconsistencies or consistencies, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall the defendant in the interview that he gave me and Investigator Singleton stating that after he had shot Trayvon Martin, Trayvon Martin said, or something, put his hands up, correct? Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall that he then stated that Trayvon Martin somehow fell on the ground face first. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall the defendant stating that he put his arms out, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall him saying that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Now, sir -- if I may approach, your honor. Do you recall, sir, that one of the first -- in fact the first person that actually came out before the officer was a person named Manalo?

SERINO: Yes, Jonathan.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: We've got to take a break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Fascinating part of the trial, Detective Serino is being questioned by the prosecution about inconsistencies. He's specifically talking about exaggerations that he felt George Zimmerman was making during his interview. In particular, the extent of his injuries that Zimmerman says he suffered the night he killed Trayvon Martin. Let's listen.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you, at the point -- at that point, and even further, had you gotten any results back from FDLE regarding the analysis done of the clothing or anything else regarding that, sir?

SERINO: No, sir, I had not.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you gotten the medical examiner's report or examination in terms of final findings regarding that?

SERINO: No, sir, I had not.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you got any results regarding possible DNA?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you gotten any results in terms of ballistics, the firearms, the trajectory, the stippling, whatever evidence regarding that?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you spoken to a girl or lady that was speaking to the victim on the phone at the time or right before the time that this murder happened?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you analyzed the phone records and the conversations between the victim, Trayvon Martin, and this lady that he was speaking to? Her name is Rachel Jeantel.

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Had you seen the 7-11 video?

SERINO: No, sir, I had not.

DE LA RIONDA: You also did, obviously, reports in this case, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And in some of those reports did you in some way write down some inconsistencies, what you felt were inconsistencies based on the statements that the defendant had given you?

SERINO: Concerns of mine about his statements, yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. You mentioned at some point -- or you were asked about the size of the individuals, correct, Mr. Martin and the defendant, correct?

SERINO: The physical sizes?

DE LA RIONDA: Yes, I'm sorry, the victim. I apologize. Did you describe the victim as a skinny kid or something to that effect?

SERINO: Yes, sir, I did.

DE LA RIONDA: Would you classify the defendant, when you came into contact, as a skinny kid?

SERINO: Would I classify the defendant as skinny?

DE LA RIONDA: Yes, as a skinny kid?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Would it be fair to say the bottom line, sir, is after February 29th and after a later date, the investigation was turned over to somebody else, is that correct?

SERINO: As of what date, sir?

DE LA RIONDA: After that interview, at a later date in March, the investigation was turned over to another agency?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: So Mr. O'Mara asked you about phone calls that you had, telephone conversations with the defendant. Do you recall that?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. Was your intent to eventually, if you could, attempt to interview the defendant again and challenge him, I guess to use Mr. O'Mara's words?

SERINO: Absolutely, yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: If I could have a moment, your honor.

NELSON: Yes, you may.

DE LA RIONDA: I don't have any further questions.

NELSON: Thank you. Any recross?

O'MARA: Yes, your honor. I'll go through some of the areas that Mr. De La Rionda talked about. I'm giving a blanket apology for using some curse words, but when they exist in the case, they exist in the courtroom. So, Mr. De la Rionda was wondering -- would you agree that if you were talking to somebody --

SERINO: I have used it. Yes.

O'MARA: OK. And sometimes it's just used as just a slang term, would you agree?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Mr. De la Rionda said --

O'MARA: OK. He didn't say it with the screeching voice that Mr. De La Rionda did, did he?

SERINO: No -- O'MARA: The way he said it, not the way Mr. De La Rionda just said it, let's put that aside for a minute and speak more importantly about -- as to the way he said it.

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: Didn't show any ill will or --

SERINO: It seemed like more of a generalization.

O'MARA: Sure, right. And of course he was generalizing a little bit, correct? Because you know from your investigation that he was a bit frustrated that his neighborhood was being assailed by burglars, right? You knew that?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: You knew that -- as a matter of fact, you investigated and found out that a person, Emmanuel Burgess, was arrested two weeks before this event, a young black male, for having burglarized several homes in the neighborhood, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Late teens, tall, thin, just been arrested, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Sentenced to five years in prison for having burglarized both in Retreat View Circle and outside, but still in your jurisdiction, right?

SERINO: I wasn't involved in that, but yes, sir.

O'MARA: But you found that out in looking into everything you were looking into to find out what was going on in the neighborhood. Not only had Emmanuel Burgess been arrested two weeks before for burglarizing, but there were a lot of other burglaries in that same neighborhood, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Were you concerned that he was concerned about that? Did that cause you any concern that somebody who involved themselves in protecting the community, being on neighborhood watch, would be concerned about a bunch of burglaries in the neighborhood?

SERINO: Him being concerned, if I may --

O'MARA: Sure.

SERINO: -- is one thing. As far as my personal feelings towards his actions the night of is a little bit different.

O'MARA: Sure, and we'll get to that in just a moment.

SERINO: OK.

O'MARA: But talking specifically to the issue -- not necessarily a derogatory way, correct, just as sort of a slang term.

SERINO: Being more towards derogatory, sir.

O'MARA: So ever if guys walk into the squad room --

SERINO: I see what you're saying, but it could be viewed that way.

O'MARA: OK -- don't suggest that that evidence is any hatred or ill will on his behalf, do you?

SERINO: As I interpret that, that was said with the infliction as a sense of urgency, as if something was happening bad.

O'MARA: Right. Because he was just running away, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: And then -- when Mr. Zimmerman -- Mr. De La Rionda just recounted it to you?

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: Do you know why Mr. De La Rionda yelled it at you?

SERINO: To stress a point, to emphasize.

O'MARA: Right. But you heard it on tape, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And how was it said on tape?

SERINO: It was said more as a as a matter of factually -- matter of fact as far as --

O'MARA: -- correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: OK. Frustration based upon the fact that other people in the neighborhood who have burglarized the place seemed to get away on occasion, right?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: And in that sense, you said that there was no evidence that Trayvon Martin was doing anything wrong, correct?

SERINO: None whatsoever.

O'MARA: You don't know that, though, correct?

SERINO: No, I do not. O'MARA: Right. You know that whatever he may have been planning just wasn't completed, correct?

SERINO: I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. There was no evidence to suggest that at all.

O'MARA: As a matter of fact, there was a type of a tool found in the area where Trayvon Martin may have been hiding, wasn't there?

SERINO: Approximately five, six days after the investigation at the scene, yes.

O'MARA: Right. When you went back, you looked in the bushes and you found, what was it?

SERINO: It was a piece of an awning belonging to -- I believe it was a piece of a window -- piece of hardware basically. Looked like a slim Jim.

O'MARA: Slim Jim, and what's a slim Jim?

SERINO: A slim Jim is a device used to jimmy locks on vehicles primarily.

O'MARA: To break into a vehicle?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And that was found a few days after this event?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Not particularly tied to this event by you, but it was there, wasn't it?

SERINO: Yes, it was.

O'MARA: In the bushes just off of one of the residences, correct?

SERINO: In the bushes behind Jonathan Manalo's residence.

O'MARA: So, would you suggest that the focus beyond how Mr. Zimmerman --

SERINO: I can't speak for Mr. Guys, but Mr. De La Rionda's was different.

O'MARA: Now, he also asked you that you were questioning Mr. Zimmerman on the fact that he was following Trayvon Martin, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And Mr. Zimmerman said?

SERINO: Words along --

O'MARA: He said yes, right? He said, wait a minute, were you following him? And in the interview his word was yes, right?

SERINO: In one of the interviews, yes.

O'MARA: He acknowledged to you that he was following him at one point, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Anything wrong with following somebody like that?

SERINO: That was --

O'MARA: Let me ask you this way, anything illegal?

DE LA RIONDA: Objection.

O'MARA: I'm sorry. I'll let him answer that one.

SERINO: Repeat it, please.

O'MARA: Did you think there was anything wrong with him following him to see where he was going?

SERINO: Legally speaking, no.

O'MARA: OK. As a matter of fact, it was -- and you heard the nonemergency call, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And it was twice on that, that the nonemergency operator asked Mr. Zimmerman, tell me if he does anything else.

SERINO: Yes, I believe that was said.

O'MARA: All right.

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: Does that indicate that he wants him to keep an eye on him?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You said following him is not legally improper, correct?

SERINO: That's not illegal, no.

O'MARA: Even approaching somebody is not illegally improper, is it?

SERINO: That's open for interpretation.

O'MARA: Tell me what crime you believe would occur if I were to walk up to you on the street and say hi?

SERINO: In that manner, none whatsoever.

O'MARA: How about what are you doing here? I don't like the fact that you have gray on. Get out of my face.

SERINO: That could be construed at confrontational, not illegal.

O'MARA: True. But is that a crime?

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: And when the operator who said twice "tell me if he does anything else" then says "are you following him?" what does Mr. Zimmerman say?

SERINO: He says yes.

O'MARA: And in your investigation, is there anything at all to suggest at that time that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow Mr. Martin?

SERINO: At which point, sir?

O'MARA: At the point that the officer said -- or the 911 -- nonemergency operator said we don't need you to do that and Mr. Zimmerman said OK.

SERINO: I would say yes, there was.

O'MARA: And what evidence would you have?

SERINO: His end location.

O'MARA: I'm sorry?

SERINO: His end location, the location where the incident ultimately ended.

O'MARA: OK. So the fact that -- may I approach the witness, your honor?

NELSON: You may.

O'MARA: For identification purposes I show the witness State's Exhibit 139. Because you know the event started where?

SERINO: The event as far as I'm concerned started off that map.

O'MARA: OK. I'm talking about the physical altercation, I apologize. My understanding from -- what's your understanding as to when Mr. Zimmerman got to this area, what path he took?

SERINO: May I stand?

O'MARA: Please do.

NELSON: Can you face forward?

SERINO: Yes. My understanding and interpretation is he's coming this way. He walks -- OK. He walks, per his statement, all the way over here. He says he doesn't see him. He says he doesn't see him and the altercation, physical altercation started right there approximately.

O'MARA: OK. Great, thank you. So with that as context then, do you know exactly where Mr. Zimmerman was when the nonemergency operator said we don't need you to do that?

SERINO: Based on his statement, he was at his vehicle, which would have been, I believe, wherever he parked it.

NELSON: Based on his statement he was at his vehicle?

SERINO: Wherever he parked it on Twin Trees.

O'MARA: It's your understanding of the investigation that Mr. Zimmerman was at his vehicle when the officer said we don't need you to do that?

SERINO: That's when he was exiting his vehicle. That's my understanding.

O'MARA: OK. And then how many seconds went forward as he was walking before that conversation occurred?

DE LA RIONDA: Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence that he was walking.

NELSON: Sustained.

O'MARA: How many seconds -- you heard the tape where you can hear him getting out of the car, correct?

SERINO: Where I heard the sound of the door being opened, which I interpreted that.

O'MARA: That he got out of the car?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: And then you know that he was going -- he was walking in some direction, because he said to the officer in response to "are you following him," he said yes, right?

DE LA RIONDA: Objection as to facts not in evidence. Walking and assuming a fact not in evidence.

NELSON: Please rephrase your question.

O'MARA: You know that he was following him because he told the nonemergency operator that he was, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And you know from the conversation that Mr. Zimmerman indicated to the nonemergency operator that he had cut between the buildings, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir. O'MARA: OK. So, if I might approach again. To be more clear about what you just testified to, he parked his car somewhere in this area, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: Go ahead.

SERINO: Like around here somewhere.

O'MARA: Right. So he's --

NELSON: Could you face forward?

SERINO: I'd have to hear it again obviously, but somewhere very shortly thereafter leaving his car, that's when it was asked are you following him.

O'MARA: OK.

SERINO: And he said yes.

O'MARA: And Mr. Zimmerman had indicated that Mr. Martin had gone between the buildings, he was out of sight, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: Yet you testified a moment ago that pursuant to Mr. Zimmerman's statement, he had gone down to true view circle, correct?

SERINO: That was his statement but as far as a visual as to when he got out of the vehicle, I don't know. I wasn't there, but he could see him at any point which way he was running. Am I making myself clear?

O'MARA: Well, the jury can decide that. I'll try to walk you through a little bit more. My question a while ago was whether or not you had any evidence to support any contention that Mr. Zimmerman continued to follow Trayvon Martin after being told not to. Do you have any evidence to support that?

SERINO: I would answer I have information, yes, that there was -- just based on where we located Trayvon and the fact that the altercation happened after his conversation. That's my interpretation.

O'MARA: Let me ask it this way. Do you have anything to contradict Mr. Zimmerman's statement that he walked the rest of the way to and was coming back to his car when the interaction between him and Trayvon Martin occurred?

SERINO: Nothing tangible, no.

O'MARA: Go intangible on us, then. What do you mean nothing tangible? SERINO: In the circumstances, the totality of the whole thing that I'm looking at as I interpret it, when he says follow, walking behind and trying to find a direction, I think of that as follow. He was trying to do something in the same direction as Trayvon was going.

O'MARA: He was trying to see where he was?

SERINO: As far as the word follow, as my report may indicate, it's open for interpretation.

O'MARA: And as your report indicates, there's nothing to suggest that Trayvon Martin went --

(END LIVE FEED)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you're watching NEWSROOM. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining us. As you can see, George Zimmerman's attorney is now questioning Detective Serino after a spirited series of questions by the prosecuting attorney to this witness.

MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: He was trying to see where he was?

CHRIS SERINO, INVESTIGATOR: As far as the word follow, as my report may indicate, I mean, it's you know -- but it's open for interpretation.

O'MARA: And as your report indicates, there's nothing to suggest that Trayvon Martin went --

(END LIVE FEED)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, you're watching NEWSROOM. I'm Carol Costello. Thanks so much for joining us.

As you can see, George Zimmerman's attorney is now questioning Detective Serino after a spirited series of questions by the prosecuting attorney to this witness.

Jason Johnson you've been observing this and it's like a prize fight today.

JASON JOHNSON, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, yes they're really landing both, I think somehow the state woke up. Maybe they saw that they didn't appear to be doing much for the last couple of days. I think they did a good job of sort of demonstrating contradictions between -- I mean basically it seemed like Serino was more questioning Zimmerman last year than this year and so I think -- I think both sides have really stepped up. This -- this is going to be probably the day that the jurors are really going to start leaning one way or another.

COSTELLO: And in some -- I'm going to read off some things that came out of the prosecution's questions to the Detective Serino. So during the time that Detective Serino was questioning George Zimmerman, Detective Serino felt that Zimmerman exaggerated the extent of his injuries.

Zimmerman said that he got out of his truck that night and he looked for an address and he could not find one anywhere. He wasn't really following Trayvon Martin he was looking for that address. But the prosecuting attorney said there was a visible address right in front of George Zimmerman and he showed physical evidence that that indeed was true. He also got Detective Serino to admit that Zimmerman could have been profiling Trayvon Martin. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: Let me make sure it is clear. If I were to believe that somebody was committing a crime, could that not be profiling that person?

O'MARA: Object, your honor, leading.

DEBRA NELSON, PRESIDING JUDGE: Overruled as to leading.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you understand my question, sir?

SERINO: Yes, I did. It could be construed as such, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right, let's go out to the former prosecuting attorney, Sunny Hostin. How important was that moment, Sunny?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well that -- that moment was incredibly important to the prosecution but the entire redirect was incredibly important. And I think we've really seen a sea change. And Carol, you said to me this morning that I was the only person in the world that believed that the prosecution was doing well.

I challenge you on that now. I think a lot of people certainly agree with me, that the prosecution is doing quite well. The prosecution is doing what it's supposed to do. It's been laying out its case piece by piece. These cases are somewhat like a puzzle.

I think now the picture is becoming a bit more clear as to why the prosecution put George Zimmerman's statements into evidence. These were -- this was a huge win for the prosecution today. They pointed out that George Zimmerman said that he had to get out of his car to find an address. Well, there was an address right in front of him. He is the neighborhood watchperson, after all.

Serino also conceded that George Zimmerman's behavior was consistent with profiling someone. Serino also conceded that the term "f-ing punk," the terms that George Zimmerman was using is evidence of ill- will, hatred, spite and those are all the elements that the prosecutor has to prove, right? The prosecutor has to prove depraved mind, that he had this sort of ill-will, this intent, this spite. And they also need to prove, I believe, in this case to refute self-defense that George Zimmerman was the first aggressor, that he followed, that he profiled, that he pursued, that he confronted.

Well, now Detective Investigator Serino conceded that. And I think one thing that has sort of was very nuanced and sort of flew under the radar was that the Bernie set up -- that the state rather set up that this investigator was removed from the case shortly after, you know, this interview.

And so I suspect that they'll follow up with the evidence from whatever other investigator was appointed.

COSTELLO: Yes OK. We'll see. On the other hand, Mark O'Mara, Zimmerman's lead defense attorney, certainly is not giving up. He's now questioning Detective Serino and I'll address this question to you, Page.

He said, "Hey, it's not illegal to follow someone." He got the detective to admit that. It's not illegal to follow someone, it's not illegal to confront someone, it's just not.

He also brought up the fact there was a series of robberies in that neighborhood and a thin young black man was arrested for committing one of those robberies and he's now been sentenced to five years in jail.

PAGE PATE, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right I think it's clear that the defense is going to concede that George Zimmerman was following Trayvon Martin, but so what? I see that the defense lawyer here is bringing the jury into the picture and saying, look, don't you want your neighborhood watch guy to follow someone like this, someone who he doesn't know why he's there, he doesn't know what he may be doing.

So I think it's good strategy I think it's good lawyering. Go ahead and concede the fact that he's following him, but that's not necessarily bad and it's not unlawful and that's what he's pointing out here.

COSTELLO: OK we have to take a break. We'll come right back with more live testimony after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. George Zimmerman's attorney continues to question Detective Serino. He's the man who questioned George Zimmerman extensively about what happened the night Trayvon Martin died. Something that came out of testimony while we were on the break that you'll need to know, Mark O'Mara got Detective Serino to agree that concrete could be used as a weapon.

You can draw many conclusions from that, right? So let's continue listening to testimony now.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

O'MARA: Interested in the fact that there may have been a videotape, correct?

SERINO: Yes, it is.

O'MARA: Didn't he also say that he -- maybe without his knowing he'd hope that the homeowners association had put up another video camera somewhere in that back area?

SERINO: Yes, he did.

O'MARA: So he actually said to you not only do I hope that Trayvon Martin was somehow taping this or since he had the phone out or whatever, that somehow maybe it was on video and he said, what was his words, thank God, I hope he was videotaping it?

SERINO: Words to those effect, yes. O'MARA: He even said to you well maybe it's being videotaped from somewhere else. That maybe the homeowners association had put up a camera going right down that dog walk that I wasn't aware of or, for that matter, any one of the dozen neighbors may have had a video camera out, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Didn't he also indicate that he even hoped that maybe the one person who had come out who we now know to be John Good that maybe he had videotaped it?

SERINO: I don't know if he verbalized that, but he seemed to be very open to having something videoed. He -- he yes. He seemed to be very elated in the prospect that there was some sort of videotape.

O'MARA: Hoping that that would actually document what happened that night?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Another challenge that you did -- just a moment, if I might, your honor. Another challenge that you did to Mr. Zimmerman was concerning this question about the hands over the face, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Because that was a concern of yours, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Because he said he placed his hand over my face at one point, I really thought he was suffocating me, or words like that, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And yet on the screaming or the 911, there wasn't a great deal of muffling, would you agree?

SERINO: No, sir, there was not. Yes.

O'MARA: And had there have been muffling, then it would have even been perfectly coordinated with what Mr. Zimmerman told you because then the suffocating and muffling would have shown up on the tape but in this case it didn't, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: You would agree that the screams are from one person, correct?

SERINO: Based on our interpretation, yes.

O'MARA: OK.

SERINO: Yes. O'MARA: And that they were just that scream, stop, scream, stop, scream, stop, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK and I think you said that you also believed Mr. Zimmerman may have exaggerated as to the number of times getting hit, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: De La Rionda brought that up again as an exaggeration, right?

SERINO: Possibly, yes.

O'MARA: That yes and I think we talked about it as to how it might be perceived when you're the one getting hit, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: OK it may also be that you perceive getting smothered even when somebody has their hand on your broken nose?

SERINO: Possibly, yes.

O'MARA: Oh may have actually had a hand on his mouth or nose but just not enough to interfere with Mr. Zimmerman's continued screams for help, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: So even though you challenged him on that to try to come up with an answer, he told you I don't know, right?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: Did he change his story at that point, realizing that now you've got him on the facts and just say, "Well, actually I turned over and I was screaming the other way and that's what?" Did he do any of that?

SERINO: No, sir, he did not.

O'MARA: He just basically said I think he had his hands on my head, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: I think he was trying to stop me from breathing.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And it hurt.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And just so we're clear in that regard, would you agree that there may have been some screams muffled enough that they didn't simply didn't show up on the tape?

SERINO: There could have been, possibly.

O'MARA: With that last challenge, this -- you call it the suffocation challenge, was there anything in that challenge of Mr. Zimmerman that you thought then was problematic? The way he answered it?

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: Now let's talk about the video where Mr. Zimmerman seems, maybe for the second time, to not notice Miss Lauer's number on the right-hand side, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And as he's walking you through it, again voluntarily doing what you wanted him to do, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: He sort of looked over and he said I didn't see anything here, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And obviously had he looked to his right if he have been in that spot and had he not been blocked by the tree that the jury has seen in another picture, that he might have seen or could have seen Miss Lauer's numbers, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Would he have seen them if he had just started walking by and just got past Miss Lauer's, you know, the front door right there? Is there any number on the side of that building?

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: OK so if I might carefully approach, your honor. Just so we're clear on, again, state's 139, this is Miss Lauer's front door here. The number is sort of on this side?

SERINO: Yes, facing -- facing the street.

O'MARA: Right facing out this way?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: So if Mr. Zimmerman had gotten to this point and was looking around or doing whatever he was doing, as soon as he got to somewhere in this point he would not have a line of sight.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: I object, it's misstating what Mr. Zimmerman said on video as to where he was when he didn't or did see the address.

O'MARA: I'll clear that up.

NELSON: Could you rephrase the question?

O'MARA: Sure no one could see the numbers once you get past this, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: And you do agree that Mr. Zimmerman was trying to do the best he could to acknowledge what he was doing in the recreation, correct?

SERINO: By appearances, yes.

O'MARA: He seemed to be doing everything that he could to explain to you what he was doing?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: As you were -- as he was doing this, was it a situation where you were just sort of letting him run with it or were you asking him any questions along the way?

SERINO: I believe some questions were asked for clarification.

O'MARA: Yes. Sure. And when he said, as he's walking with Miss Lauer's to the right of him and he's sort of looking this way, the car is somewhere near where he said he parked his, right?

SERINO: From what I recall, yes.

O'MARA: And you had the nonemergency call already known by the time you did the re-creation, so you knew an idea of the series of events, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You knew that he had said that I've gotten out of the car about here, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And that he was walking down that road or doing something, walking, running, jogging, whatever he was doing, he was ambulating down that pathway, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: That he sort of looked over and said I couldn't see any numbers and he looked to his left, correct?

SERINO: From what I recall, yes.

O'MARA: Did anyone ever think at that point to go, excuse me, if you back up and look over this way there's a number, why didn't you look at that number?

SERINO: If it wasn't mentioned, no.

O'MARA: Did you ever do that afterwards?

SERINO: No.

O'MARA: Did that seem in the context of what he was trying to explain had happened to him that night, that ended up with what it ended up with, that that was some type of active deception to you?

SERINO: I didn't interpret it as such, no.

O'MARA: OK. It doesn't make a lot of sense in your mind that he couldn't remember the name of the street, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: If he said there's only three there, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: Did you -- and you even questioned him about that, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: But did that show to you to be some active deception on his part?

SERINO: The fact that he couldn't remember the three streets could have possibly, yes. It did raise flags and concerns.

O'MARA: OK. And did that lead to any concern -- I mean you addressed it in this confrontation interview, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And you're OK with what he responded?

SERINO: That's all I could do is be OK with it.

O'MARA: And then you were questioned about a number of things concerning the investigation, so I want to talk to you about some of those.

SERINO: OK.

O'MARA: The medical examiner's report, you had a chance to review that, correct?

SERINO: Yes, I have.

O'MARA: OK. And the medical examiner's report and its findings were consistent with Mr. Zimmerman's story, were they not?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: As far as how he shot him, correct? Where he shot him? SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And the distance between the muzzle of the gun and the clothing, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And also there was a gap of a few inches between the clothing and Mr. Martin's chest, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Evidencing that the muzzle of the gun was up against the chest -- up against the shirt, but the shirt was not up against the chest, there was a few inch difference, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And didn't that support the contention that Mr. Martin was hanging over Mr. Zimmerman, his shirt coming forward when the shot was fired?

SERINO: It did. Yes.

O'MARA: Right. Because had he been standing up, as I am now, the shirt would be up against the chest probably, right?

SERINO: Probably, yes, sir.

O'MARA: And if I lean over, my shirt is going to fall apart from my chest a few inches and that seems to be how it was, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: The medical examiner's report, however, does not support a contention, an allegation that Mr. Zimmerman pressed that gun against Trayvon Martin's chest before he fired it, does it?

SERINO: Not from the one I read.

O'MARA: As a matter of fact, the known evidence completely contradicts that type of a suggestion, doesn't it?

SERINO: From what I understand, yes.

O'MARA: So no pressing of the gun against the chest, was there?

SERINO: Not based on evidence that I've read, no.

O'MARA: And you saw the 7-Eleven video since, right? I think Mr. De la Rionda was suggesting that you didn't have it then. You've certainly seen it since?

SERINO: I don't think I viewed the video itself. I think that was brought after I was --

O'MARA: No, but have you seen it?

SERINO: I've seen stills. Still photos.

O'MARA: OK. And the stills that you saw showed Trayvon Martin in it?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: And show him the way he appeared that night?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: So when you say that certainly in the autopsy photograph that you wanted to show Mr. Zimmerman, which again was part of the challenge interview, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You hit him with something sort of emotional to ground him, that he had caused the death of this person.

SERINO: It was graphic, yes, sir.

O'MARA: And that's the purpose of it, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: But the picture of Mr. Martin at 7-Eleven, would you agree that that shows somebody at his height, whatever that might have been, in the shoes and the hoodie and wearing the outfit that he was wearing, that he did not look in the 7-Eleven video to be the skinny kid that you showed the picture of to Mr. Zimmerman, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: Much larger-looking individual.

SERINO: I would agree with you, yes.

O'MARA: My height or so? I'm 6'2".

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: If I was wearing a hoodie and had his shoes on, correct?

SERINO: Yes.

O'MARA: When you talk about relative size, I think you said Mr. Zimmerman not today but back then wouldn't come across as a skinny kid. Correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: When you look at the actual height differential, there was quite a height differential, wasn't there?

SERINO: Yes, there was. O'MARA: And therefore a reach differential?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You know what that means, right?

SERINO: Yes, I do.

O'MARA: What is that?

SERINO: The reach is measured arm to arm sideways.

O'MARA: If I may have a moment, your honor.

DEBRA NELSON, PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, you may.

(END LIVE FEED)

COSTELLO: All right. While Mark O'Mara takes a moment, we're going to take a moment too. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. The prosecuting attorney is again questioning Detective Serino and they're talking about how big Trayvon Martin was because Mark O'Mara intimated that Trayvon Martin was much bigger than we knew. He said he was about his own height which is 6'2". The prosecuting attorney is up there saying essentially, no, Trayvon Martin is 5'11" and 158 pounds. How could he have grown a couple of inches that night? Let's listen to more testimony now.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

DE LA RIONDA: You would agree that an expert, or if he's qualified as an expert, a medical examiner or assistant medical examiner would be better qualified as to the findings that he made versus you saying what he said?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: You would defer to the medical examiner, would you not?

SERINO: Absolutely.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. O'Mara asked you some questions about the burglaries that were being committed out there at Retreat Twin Lakes. You investigated or determined there was some, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And that the defendant had made calls about them, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And I think Mr. O'Mara referred to it as a black male, right, at least one of them he referred to. Did you know whether the other individuals he had called on were black males or not?

SERINO: From what I recall researching, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say it again.

SERINO: From what I recall researching then, yes, they were.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. O'Mara asked you a bunch of questions about the word, pardon my language, "asshole" (AUDIO GAP) somebody, referring to somebody?

SERINO: In my opinion, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Asked you about the words that the defendant uttered on September -- I'm sorry, on February 26 at around 7:10 before he followed the victim. Do you recall him specifically under his breath saying (AUDIO GAP). Now, do you read any comics?

SERINO: Never, why?

DE LA RIONDA: Do you read any comics?

SERINO: Comics?

DE LA RIONDA: You know, how they have a little caption, like a little bubble because they kind of what the person is thinking?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: At the time he got out of the car and was getting out of the car, the defendant (AUDIO GAP), right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. O'Mara asked you a few questions about suffocating. Do you recall being asked questions about that, suffocating?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Now, the defendant claims that the victim was suffocating him, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. Did you find any evidence of blood on the victim's hands?

SERINO: None that I'm aware of, no, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And there was evidence that the defendant was bleeding, especially on his mouth right here on his mustache, he had some -- right under his nose. He had some blood, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: May I approach the witness, your honor? NELSON: Yes, you may.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm not going to hit you.

SERINO: You can hit me.

DE LA RIONDA: If I can, and I'm hitting you, correct? That's what the defendant is claiming, that I'm suffocating you and I'm not going to put my hand on your mouth. Would you have your hands like this or would you be fighting me?

SERINO: I'd be fighting you.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you find any blood or anything on the defendant's hands?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: You were also asked about the witnesses and stuff. If I may approach again, your honor.

NELSON: Yes you may.

DE LA RIONDA: State's exhibit 140, Mr. O'Mara showed you this. Do you recall this? And he asked you in terms of assuming -- I apologize, he may have actually showed you 139. I apologize.

Let me take both up. 139 he asked you about assuming the defendant's story is correct in terms of where the altercation happened, et cetera.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: Did you have some evidence that possibly there was something going on behind these houses here? (inaudible)

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: You were asked about the hoodie at the 7-Eleven. I'm not aware of it, but what law states that an individual can't go into a 7-Eleven with a hoodie? Is there some law that I missed?

SERINO: No sir.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: I'm not aware of, but what law states that an individual can't go into a 7-Eleven with a hoodie? Is there some law that I missed?

DETECTIVE CHRIS SERINO, SANFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: If I may have a moment, your honor.

And finally, you do not have the phone records in terms of Trayvon Martin or Rachel Jeantel, right, the lady that he was talking to, to determine whether it was accurate based on when the defendant's phone finished or not?

SERINO: No, sir, I did not.

DE LA RIONDA: In other words, you didn't have the defendant's phone records either, did you?

SERINO: No, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And I'm talking about the February 29th interview, I apologize.

SERINO: I was assuming that, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you, no further questions.

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON: Thank you.

We've been here almost two hours this morning on cross, redirect ...

(AUDIO BREAK)

... and now you're seeking to re-recross. I will give you five minutes. It's the state's witness and the state will have another five minutes on re-re-redirect.

MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: Sorry, your honor, there's just a new areas he's gone into and I have to address them.

NELSON: Well, you have five minutes for your re-re-recross.

O'MARA: Yes, your honor. As far as any blood on Mr. Zimmerman's hands, when he got to you he was already cleaned up by EMTs and he had washed himself at SPD, correct?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: You wouldn't expect to find blood on his hands at that point, would you?

SERINO: No, sir.

O'MARA: And when the suggestion is why didn't Trayvon Martin have blood on his hands, does blood -- is blood susceptible to gravity as well?

SERINO: Yes, sir, it is.

O'MARA: So if he gets smashed in the nose and is thrown on the ground, which way is the blood going?

SERINO: Towards the ground.

O'MARA: And back down his throat?

SERINO: And only when he stands up is it going to come out of his nostrils.

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Which is when he's no longer being mounted by Trayvon Martin?

SERINO: Typically, yes, sir.

O'MARA: Break my nose, put me on the ground, my blood is going backwards into my throat, right?

SERINO: Theoretically, yes.

O'MARA: And would not be available to be on Trayvon Martin's hands at that point because there was no blood outside the nose, correct?

SERINO: Correct.

O'MARA: and I'm not going to approach you like he did, but basically, first of all, if he's holding him down, could that be literally momentary that he's holding him down and Mr. Zimmerman is trying to get back up?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Could the attempt to suffocate literally be moment air as well?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: Could it be a sleeve or an arm or a palm or anything that could have given Mr. Zimmerman that impression?

SERINO: Yes, sir. O'MARA: Thank you, your honor.

NELSON: Thank you. You have ...

DE LA RIONDA: I think I'm only going to ask two or three questions.

NELSON: Thank you.

DE LA RIONDA: May only ask one. Right now it could be raining outside, right?

SERINO: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: And that would be pure speculation on your part, would it not?

SERINO: Yes, it would.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you.

NELSON: Thank you.

Officer Serino, you're excused from the courtroom, but you're subject to being recalled. Thank you very much

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we'll take a 15-minute recess. If you'll please put your notepads face down on the chairs and follow the deputy back into the jury room.

(END LIVE FEED)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And that is what you call re-re- redirect and re-re-recross. I may be missing a few "re"s.

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield, picking up our live coverage, our continuing coverage of the George Zimmerman second-degree murder trial, live here in Sanford, Florida.

As the courtroom breaks, you can see George Zimmerman standing as the jury gets up to leave.

And I want to listen to what the judge is saying.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

NELSON: ... we will recess for 15 minutes.

DE LA RIONDA: No, your honor.

O'MARA: No, your honor.

DON WEST, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: I have a motion I'm filing at this point, your honor.

It certainly doesn't need to be addressed right this minute, but it's in response to a motion the state filed yesterday. I don't know if they have noticed it for hearing or not.

NELSON: I haven't received any notices for hearing, but we'll go ahead and take your motion.

WEST: Thank you.

NELSON: We'll be recessed.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: Did he say the person you now know as Trayvon Martin -- when I say "he," I'm talking about the defendant, George Zimmerman --

MARK OSTERMAN, WITNESS & ZIMMERMAN'S BEST FRIEND: Right.

DE LA RIONDA: -- that he walked up to the passenger side window and stood there for a moment and then goes to the front of the car, comes around to the window on my driver side and then towards the rear of my car and then walks away.

OSTERMAN: Yeah, walked around the vehicle in close proximity. And I think they looked at each other, George had said.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he, the defendant, then say at some point he lost sight of the person you now know as Trayvon Martin?

OSTERMAN: Yes, briefly.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall then in terms of Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant saying that he was talking to dispatch or the non-emergency person, correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he tell you that in terms of whether he was asked are you following him and he answered yes, I'm following him, but he didn't see Trayvon Martin at that point, was looking for him?

OSTERMAN: Well, there's kind of two -- as George described it to me, there were kind of two phases of the contact. The first one was when he first saw him and then he pulled into the clubhouse parking lot. And then the second one was when he re-established contact with Trayvon, who walked down another side street that wasn't the main -- the main street around the circle and then he backed his car up and then he tried to -- tried to keep visual contact with him so he followed him with his car. And he didn't get out of his vehicle until he lost visual sight of him.

DE LA RIONDA: And what do you recall the defendant telling you that the officer -- that the dispatcher, I use officer just because they're with the police department, saying that the defendant that we don't need you to follow him and he said OK?

OSTERMAN: Correct. That was at the point where he had already gotten out of his car first and as he described it to me, there were two reasons for getting out of the car. First, he didn't know the street I guess he was on, that center street. It's a smaller street. He didn't know the actual name of it so he got out of his car to try to establish a visual contact, to try to direct the police officer in to meet with Trayvon and dispel his suspicions and to find the exact address. Because as a police officer, you always want to know the exact address of where you're going.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. And then he told you -- I'm sorry, he, the defendant -- I apologize for using a pronoun -- that he started walking and then he put his phone somewhere?

OSTERMAN: He put his phone in his pocket after the dispatcher told him they didn't need him to follow him. So he was going to walk back to his vehicle.

DE LA RIONDA: And then he said something happened at that point?

OSTERMAN: He told me that as he was walking back to his car down the dog path, that Trayvon had confronted him, had walked towards him and confronted him and they had a verbal.

DE LA RIONDA: And what do you recall the defendant telling you that Trayvon Martin told him and what did he say in response?

OSTERMAN: He cursed. I'm not going to curse here today. He said do you have a problem? And then he used a curse word.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. Now, you wrote a book about this, right?

OSTERMAN: I did.

DE LA RIONDA: And you wrote a book. And you quoted what the defendant, George Zimmerman, told you, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Do you recall in that book writing "do you have a problem," that's what he said Trayvon Martin said?

OSTERMAN: Right, correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And you didn't put in that book anything about a curse word at all?

OSTERMAN: I believe I did.

DE LA RIONDA: You did? OK.

OSTERMAN: I believe I did. Do you have a problem, and then he used the initials M.F.

DE LA RIONDA: OK.

May I approach the witness, Your Honor?

DEBRA NELSON, CIRCUIT JUDGE: Yes, you may. DE LA RIONDA: I'm going to show you your book. Unless I've got the wrong page. I'm on page 28, Counsel. Just to refresh your memory.

OSTERMAN: Correct, correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Don't read from it. That's just to refresh your memory.

OSTERMAN: Yeah, he had told me that do you have a problem and then the curse word. It was taken out of the book because it was pretty graphic.

DE LA RIONDA: Oh, OK. So on purpose you took it out.

OSTERMAN: I think the publisher asked it not be put in.

DE LA RIONDA: You said he asked do you have a problem and Mr. Zimmerman replied, no, I don't have a problem, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: But you believe the words were actually what now the defendant said?

OSTERMAN: M.F.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. So the juries have heard, so just for the record he said -- (AUDIO PROBLEM).

And then the defendant, Mr. Zimmerman, said in reply, no, I don't have a problem. And then Mr. Trayvon Martin replied?

OSTERMAN: You do now.

DE LA RIONDA: And the defendant claimed that he, Trayvon Martin, was coming at him at that time?

OSTERMAN: He was very close, probably within an arm's or two arm's reach and George lost contact visually.

(CROSSTALK)

DE LA RIONDA: I apologize.

OSTERMAN: OK.

DE LA RIONDA: I interrupted you. Go ahead.

OSTERMAN: That's OK. No, as George was reaching down to get to his phone to re-establish contact with the dispatch, that's when physical contact happened.

DE LA RIONDA: So the defendant told you that he had these words with Trayvon Martin.

OSTERMAN: Correct. DE LA RIONDA: And then he said that he went and reached for his phone in his pocket.

OSTERMAN: Correct. And looked down.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry, he looked down.

OSTERMAN: He looked down to reach to get into his pocket.

DE LA RIONDA: And at that point is when Trayvon Martin hit him?

OSTERMAN: Struck him in the nose.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. So he -- the defendant claims he looked down and that's when Trayvon Martin hit him?

OSTERMAN: Well, he looked down, got his phone and he said as he looked back up, and he lost visual contact for maybe a second to get his phone out of his pocket. He went like this. As he looked up, the punch came squarely in his face.

DE LA RIONDA: So did the defendant say he took the phone out or left it in his pocket?

OSTERMAN: I don't remember that. I don't remember.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. And then what did the defendant claim after he claims the victim hit him in the nose?

OSTERMAN: He stumbled backwards and found himself on his back.

DE LA RIONDA: OK.

OSTERMAN: Partially on the grass, partially on the sidewalk.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he say what the victim, Trayvon Martin, was doing at that point?

OSTERMAN: He moved forward and got on top of him.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he describe to you how he got on top of him?

OSTERMAN: His knees were up somewhere near his chest or up near his arm pits and he was -- he was beginning to punch him.

DE LA RIONDA: OK. So the defendant is claiming that the victim straddled him, I guess?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And his knees were up in his ribs and near his arm pits, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And he began punching him? OSTERMAN: That's what George said.

DE LA RIONDA: I apologize. He began punching Trayvon Martin.

OSTERMAN: Trayvon began punching George Zimmerman.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry. I got it backwards. Sorry. The defendant is claiming he's on the ground, Trayvon Martin is straddling him.

OSTERMAN: Was punching him.

OSTERMAN: I'm sorry.

DE LA RIONDA: I apologize, Mr. Osterman.

OSTERMAN: I'm sorry.

He said that he was on his back and Trayvon Martin straddled him and began punching him in the face.

DE LA RIONDA: But the way he described Trayvon Martin straddling the defendant, he claims that his -- you said his knees were up to his rib cage or arm pits, is that correct?

OSTERMAN: Somewhere around there, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Then he said what?

OSTERMAN: Well, George began screaming for help at that point.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he say anything about the defendant grabbing his head and doing something with his head?

OSTERMAN: Absolutely. Once he started screaming. Trayvon -- George said Trayvon grabbed his head and started bashing his head on the concrete, which his upper half of his body was on the dog path.

DE LA RIONDA: In fact, I think you quoted Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, saying that he was eight inches from the grass, correct?

OSTERMAN: About. As George was explaining it, this upper half of him, somewhere here was still on the concrete and the rest of his body was on the grass.

DE LA RIONDA: And I think your quote is, "I noticed that I'm about eight inches away from the grass," correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And then does Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, tell you that I tried to maneuver my body just enough to get my head onto the grass?

OSTERMAN: It was a squirm, he said. He said as he was squirming down towards the grass to keep his head from getting hit by the concrete, the jacket kind of remained still. His jacket since it wasn't buttoned, it stayed where it was and his body moved towards the grass a little bit more.

DE LA RIONDA: What else did he say about anybody else seeing this or came out?

OSTERMAN: He said several people had came out, at least two that he saw came out and he directly screamed for help towards those people. So as he was screaming, it was more directed at someone.

DE LA RIONDA: And did he say one of the individuals that came out was a man and he yelled directly at him and the man just went right back in?

OSTERMAN: He stated he was going to call 911. He wasn't going to get involved.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he say there was other individuals that saw this too, correct?

OSTERMAN: Perhaps at least one other for sure that witnessed what was happening. It may have been the same person that had the flashlight that showed up later.

DE LA RIONDA: I think you -- and you can refer, if you need to refresh your memory, on page 28 where you quoted Mr. Zimmerman. Did you not at the very bottom of page 28 of your book?

OSTERMAN: Several -- yeah, there were several people.

DE LA RIONDA: I think you said two other men saw us out there and did nothing.

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Correct?

OSTERMAN: I believe so. At least one other, maybe two others.

DE LA RIONDA: And then he claimed that Mr. Martin, Trayvon Martin, was still on top of him and took his hands and put it over his nose, correct?

OSTERMAN: One hand was trying to cover his nose and one hand was trying to cover his mouth to keep him from screaming.

DE LA RIONDA: And I think you quoted Mr. Zimmerman as saying that "Trayvon Martin put his hand -- takes one of his hands and puts it over my nose and pinches it closed while his other hand goes over my mouth."

OSTERMAN: It was described to me something like this, maybe a pinch -- maybe not like that, but a pinch like that and a cover.

DE LA RIONDA: So --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Continuing live CNN coverage of the George Zimmerman murder trial in Sanford, Florida. And a brief warning to you, some of the language and some of the images and subject matter is uncomfortable and defensive, so we just want to give you that warning. We're doing our very best to edit as things happen, but that does go out -- if you're watching, that certainly some of that can slip through.

Meantime, a critical witness has taken the stand. This is Mark Osterman, a self-described best friend of George Zimmerman. In fact, he actually wrote a book called "Defending Your Friend, The Most-Hated Man in America." He's being questioned by the prosecutor right now on the account that George Zimmerman told him after shooting Trayvon Martin. The details matter, specifically having your mouth covered up by Trayvon Martin, but still being able to be hit by Trayvon Martin.

They're now getting to the sidearm issue and when Trayvon might have discovered there was a sidearm, according to George Zimmerman's account to his friend.

Let's listen.

DE LA RIONDA: -- Trayvon Martin's chest and pulled the trigger, correct?

OSTERMAN: Unfortunately, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And then he claims after he shot Trayvon Martin, that Trayvon Martin sat up and he heard him say, you got it, OK, you got it, something like that?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And then that Trayvon Martin pivoted 90 degrees and fell face forward onto the grass and he scooted from under him?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And the defendant claims he didn't know he shot him?

OSTERMAN: He didn't know he struck him.

DE LA RIONDA: I'm sorry, struck him.

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: In fact, the defendant went on to tell you that he thought Trayvon Martin -- I know he wasn't calling him Trayvon Martin. I think he referred to him as the guy or whatever -- might try to get up again, so after putting his gun back in the holster, he jumped on top of Trayvon Martin and pinned him down, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And then he said a man approached him out of the darkness. OSTERMAN: The first --

DE LA RIONDA: Is that correct?

OSTERMAN: The first man was not a police officer. The second was.

DE LA RIONDA: And do you recall also that what he's describing in terms of the first contact that he had out there when he was calling the non-emergency number that he said we need you to get to a place where you can see him, in terms of observing Trayvon Martin?

OSTERMAN: Right. Well, that's -- he had said that he had to get somewhere where he could observe Trayvon or observe any subject that's in his neighborhood to be able to direct police officers to them. So whether he actually -- whether the dispatch actually said we need you to move to where you can see them -- I'm not sure if that's actually what had occurred. But he had said that his instructions from Sanford police, whenever they came to their complex, was always to get to where you can observe and try not to make contact.

DE LA RIONDA: He told you that the officer was on the scene in about 45 seconds or something, or the dispatch was telling him that, right?

OSTERMAN: Well, time is relative at that point but very shortly thereafter.

DE LA RIONDA: The dispatcher is telling him the officer is almost there, he's been 45 seconds.

OSTERMAN: Correct, correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And he told you that -- and I'm going back now in terms of the dispatcher. He tells you that he told the dispatcher just have the officer meet me at the clubhouse, correct?

OSTERMAN: That is correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And he put his phone in his pocket and headed back when the guy is about 15 seconds -- I'm sorry -- 15 feet away, walking towards him, right?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: And he's saying that Trayvon Martin -- I apologize. I'm using the name Trayvon Martin. But you know who I'm talking about.

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: He's describing this person is 15 feet away and walking towards him, correct?

OSTERMAN: Right.

DE LA RIONDA: And he says, do you have a problem? And then what occurs? You said he said some other words, M.F., but you didn't put it in the book, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: He also told you that when he managed to get his hand off of Trayvon Martin's hands off his mouth, that he had control of the wrist, correct?

OSTERMAN: To some degree to prevent him from putting it back over his mouth, yes.

DE LA RIONDA: Right. And he told you that he, the defendant, managed to break the grip on the gun where the guy grabbed it between the rear side and the hammer, correct?

OSTERMAN: Whether it was the gun or the leather casing or reaching down there and grabbing something.

DE LA RIONDA: Right, but I think --

OSTERMAN: Broke the grip of the gun or the holster.

DE LA RIONDA: Now, you didn't refer to the holster when you wrote it down in the book, correct? You just put "gun."

OSTERMAN: Correct. Because the holster -- that's exactly the place where the holster holds the firearm in place. So whether it was actual firearm or holster -- I didn't see a difference. If someone grabs a hold of the holster or grabs a hold of the gun, their intent is probably the same.

DE LA RIONDA: And the defendant is telling you then that he shot at Trayvon Martin, but he didn't know whether he had struck him or not.

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: He thought the shot went wide, correct?

OSTERMAN: He did say that.

DE LA RIONDA: Let me have a moment, Your Honor.

NELSON: OK.

DE LA RIONDA: I don't have any further questions.

NELSON: Thank you.

Cross?

MARK O'MARA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, sir, how are you?

OSTERMAN: Fine, sir.

O'MARA: How long have you been in law enforcement?

OSTERMAN: Since 1992. O'MARA: Pretty much a career for you?

OSTERMAN: It is.

O'MARA: And do you enjoy doing what you do?

OSTERMAN: Very much.

O'MARA: Did you get any college training or anything before going to the police academy?

OSTERMAN: Well, I -- not before the police academy. I had -- run went right out of high school I went into the Army. I was in the U.S. Army infantry. And when I got out, I applied directly to the Daytona Beach Community College Police Academy.

O'MARA: Completed that and been in law enforcement ever since?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: You discussed your career with George Zimmerman, did you not?

OSTERMAN: In detail.

O'MARA: It was actually you who assisted him when he decided he needed a firearm, correct?

OSTERMAN: That is correct.

O'MARA: Did he tell you the reason why he wanted to get a firearm?

OSTERMAN: He -- he asked whether he should or shouldn't to start with. I recommended that he should. Anybody who is a non-convicted felon should carry a firearm.

O'MARA: That's your life philosophy?

OSTERMAN: That's my opinion, correct.

O'MARA: Being armed instead of not being armed?

OSTERMAN: The police are not always there.

O'MARA: You then encouraged him to do that?

OSTERMAN: I told him if he wished to, to go to a place that trains for the concealed weapons permit and get that training.

O'MARA: Which you know that he did right?

OSTERMAN: He did do.

O'MARA: And then he actually got his concealed weapons permit?

OSTERMAN: I believe him and his wife.

O'MARA: Then they decided what weapon that he should purchase, correct?

OSTERMAN: That is correct.

O'MARA: Did he seek your counsel?

OSTERMAN: He did.

DE LA RIONDA: Objection. (INAUDIBLE).

NELSON: Sustained.

O'MARA: Let's focus a bit more -- how long did you know George?

OSTERMAN: About five years. At that time, about four years at that time.

O'MARA: I think you said he's your best friend?

OSTERMAN: Best one I've ever had.

O'MARA: Would that affect in any way your testimony here today that he's a good friend of yours?

OSTERMAN: Well, not as far as the truth is.

O'MARA: OK. You're going to speak the truth good or bad for Mr. Zimmerman?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: As far as that friendship you were contacted on the night this event happened?

OSTERMAN: I was.

O'MARA: And offered your help when -- I guess helped Shelly with what she was going through?

OSTERMAN: Near hysterical? She had called me from -- she was visiting her father's home at the time when she received a call from a neighbor from Twin Lakes and she immediately called me both of us got into our vehicle and arrived at Twin Lakes within about 10 seconds of each other.

O'MARA: How upset was she?

OSTERMAN: Hysterical. She had almost no information to go on because the neighbor, I guess, that called had -- they had hung up, so she couldn't get further updates as to George's health or status. She was -- I mean, I put my arm around her to kind of keep her from blacking out, I guess.

O'MARA: At that point, she had gotten a phone call from somebody who said that George was involved in a shooting, correct?

OSTERMAN: She told me that she got a call that said George was involved in a shooting, in handcuffs, and bloody.

BANFIELD: I want to bring something up while we're watching the testimony of Mark Osterman in this courtroom. And I think it's a critical piece of information, even though it's not on the record and not testimony. Many people will tell you that trials are shows. They are shows to the jury and sometimes they are shows to a TV audience. If you watch this witness on the box to my right, you can see that Mark Osterman is sweating a lot. It's not easy to be a witness. Make no mistake, it's a very stressful thing to be a witness on the witness stand.

That said, this is not your average witness. Mark Osterman is a U.S. air marshal and a former Seminole County deputy. He's aware of how to ask and answer questions.

I also want to let you know two other key pieces of information. Number one, it's extremely hot and muggy in Florida today. More so than yesterday. Number two, in this courtroom, our Martin Savidge reports, there's no difference in the temperature from yesterday to today. I bring that up because it's not going unnoticed by viewers and it's not going unnoticed by jurors and those who are watching it.

We'll squeeze in a quick break, come back and listen to the rest of the -- in fact, I want to continue listening in on the testimony as Mark O'Mara continues his cross-examination.

OSTERMAN: Stunned. He immediately attempted to reassure Shelly, who broke down again. She went into hysterics, kind of a breakdown. Went into a sobbing breakdown. And he immediately tried to reassure her. He was OK until -- he was more occupied with her than with anything else. He had a stunned look on his face.

O'MARA: When you say stunned, tell --

(CROSSTALK)

OSTERMAN: Wide eyed. Kind of a little bit detached, perhaps from maybe not realizing he had just gone through a traumatic event.

(CROSSTALK)

OSTERMAN: It's hard to describe. Very difficult to describe.

O'MARA: Let's talk about -- obviously, as a good friend to him for the five years prior -- four years prior you've known him, correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes.

O'MARA: And then tell the jury how he was that night compared to the George Zimmerman you knew most other days.

OSTERMAN: That's what I was using to base my observation on was a more wide-eyed stare. Once he saw Shelly, he focused on making sure she was reassured and letting her know he was OK and he doesn't have anything fatal or anything going onto him, he's all right. She immediately started to observe -- once she got out of her shock at seeing George, she started kind of looking at his injuries. I guess she went into a nurse mode at that point because she was a nursing student.

O'MARA: Again, how is George presenting himself to you?

OSTERMAN: Detached. It's hard to describe.

O'MARA: What is detached from the way he normally is?

OSTERMAN: Vastly.

(CROSSTALK)

O'MARA: When you say detached, what do you mean?

OSTERMAN: I would say probably -- when you feel like you -- it's hard to describe, sir. I would say he was probably in a position where he was not able to process -- he wasn't answering questions. I started asking him some questions about whether he needed to sit down for a little bit right there in the lobby. He didn't. He was just, "I just want to go. I just want to go. I just want to go home," kind of thing. It was very basic. I don't know how to describe detached as in wide eyed and really not processing what was going on.

O'MARA: Did he seem to be non-emotional about what was going on?

OSTERMAN: Coming right off of the elevator -- well, he was tending to Shelly and her sobbing and her crying. He was focused with that. When Shelly transformed from a wife concerned for her husband to being a nurse, that's when he kind of just had a blank stare.

O'MARA: At some point you got in the car, correct?

OSTERMAN: Went to my vehicle, correct.

O'MARA: And then let's talk about the conversations that he did have with you. Give us the setting as to how this conversation that, at some point in the future, you relayed as far as your direct examination, give us the setting for what had happened.

OSTERMAN: We get into my vehicle. Shelly and George got in the backseat. I had a four-door vehicle. They both got into the back seat. Shelly is trying to put an assessment on the injuries that were to George's nose and the back of his head. He had a swelling on the left side of his head. It was about the size of a fist. It was a swollen area, not really a goose egg, not as pronounced as that, but it was a very big swelling area, swollen area. I'm sorry. And with his head being -- his hair being closely cropped like mine you could see it very well. I guess if he had a lot more hair, you would not have been able to see it very well. But she started tending to that. (INAUDIBLE) and such. And when we got -- stating that she needed to get ice on that part of the swelling.

And on the drive home, from the Sanford Police Department to my home, he explained from start to finish. It took about the whole time we went from the police department to my home, he explained what had happened that night. Because that's the first time we had known any details of anything.

O'MARA: Now, as he was explaining it to you was this sort of as a friend recounting to a friend or were you acting in law enforcement mode or friend mode?

OSTERMAN: Well, my wife will tell you, it's hard for me to get out of law enforcement mode sometimes. But I like to analyze everything I hear to make sure that it makes sense. But I would say --

(CROSSTALK)

O'MARA: So we start off then, not to belabor too much keeping in mind your direct testimony, but let's start with, he told you he was on his way to Super Target?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: Did that seem usual or unusual to you?

OSTERMAN: Every single Sunday, like clock work.

O'MARA: And tell me what he said to you about him first noticing who later became known to all of us as Trayvon Martin.

OSTERMAN: He observed Trayvon walking between two sets of town homes and --
MARK O'MARA, GEORGE ZIMMERMAN'S ATTORNEY: And tell me what he said to you about him first noticing who later became known to all of us as Trayvon Martin.

MARK OSTERMAN, ZIMMERMAN'S BEST FRIEND: He observed Trayvon walking between two sets of town homes and looking into, I believe there was a window to one where the light was on and you could see that someone was looking into the window of a town home. And it was about that time that Trayvon and George made eye contact with each other and both aware of the other's presence.

O'MARA: OK. And in that initial contact, did he seem to you as though he was angry or anything like that with who this person was?

OSTERMAN: No. No. George - George said that he wanted to make sure that he just got with non-emergency dispatch and had them send a police officer.

O'MARA: And he told you he did that?

OSTERMAN: Immediately.

O'MARA: OK. And, of course, you know from your conversation with George, that that entire conversation was recorded, correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes, I do.

O'MARA: And from your conversation with George, both about this night and other nights, George certainly knows - George Zimmerman certainly knows that those phone calls are recorded, correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes.

O'MARA: So tell me then again, he's explaining to you that Trayvon Martin is now walking up and sort of near his vehicle at some point?

OSTERMAN: Correct. Came walking from between the town homes down to where the sidewalk or the road area was.

O'MARA: And are you taking any notes at this point, or are you just listening to him download (ph) it?

OSTERMAN: I'm driving.

O'MARA: OK. So at some point it became apparent to you that Mr. Zimmerman had stopped his car by the clubhouse, correct? OSTERMAN: Yes, he did.

O'MARA: And that Trayvon Martin then came up towards his car, even looked in a window or walked partially around it?

OSTERMAN: Very close. Walked around it very close. They made eye contact several more times. Very aware of each other's presence.

O'MARA: During this point, this sort of second eye contact, did George Zimmerman relate to you in any way that he was angry or -

OSTERMAN: No.

O'MARA: Anything about Trayvon Martin or this person who was there?

OSTERMAN: No, not at all.

O'MARA: And he further told you that he was still on the phone, of course, with non-emergency, right?

OSTERMAN: He remained on, correct.

O'MARA: So then we move forward to I think you said that George Zimmerman did what he thought he should to keep Trayvon Martin in sight?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: Is that pretty much the way -- tell me how he related that part to you, as best you can recall.

OSTERMAN: Well, he said that he had heard from the Sanford Police officers that showed up to the clubhouse to give instruction to neighborhood watch people was to always try to keep whatever subject that you're observing in sight. It makes it much easier for a law enforcement officer to show up and make conduct with the subject if you're on phone with dispatch during the whole process and you can actually see the subject.

O'MARA: Did he relate to you that the non-emergency dispatcher had actually told him on a couple of occasion, tell me what he's doing now or let me know if he's doing anything else?

OSTERMAN: He told me what he was doing. He didn't tell me that the dispatcher had said certain things.

O'MARA: OK. So basically George Zimmerman, as he's telling you this story, is recounting to you actions, correction -- correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes, sir. Yes.

O'MARA: Not necessarily, I did this because of this reason, or I did this and sort of super imposing the conversation he's having with non- emergency onto your conversations?

OSTERMAN: No. Not at that time, no. O'MARA: OK. He was just saying basically a rendition of what was going on?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: And just so the jury is clear, about how long was this conversation between George Zimmerman and you during this car ride?

OSTERMAN: The drive from the Sanford Police Department to near the intersection and Reinhart (ph) Road and Lake Mary Boulevard, which would have been about 14 minutes, 15 minutes.

O'MARA: And during that time were other things being discussed as well, like whatever Shelly (ph) was doing with him?

OSTERMAN: She didn't interject at all.

O'MARA: OK. So during this conversation you then -- he's telling you that he's trying to keep an eye on Trayvon Martin -

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: However he can, right (ph)?

OSTERMAN: That was his intent -

O'MARA: OK.

OSTERMAN: Was to keep him under observation.

O'MARA: And at some point - well tell me then, at some point did he say to you that I couldn't see him any longer or that he'd lost sight of him?

OSTERMAN: That is what he -- that's one of the reasons why he got out of the vehicle.

O'MARA: And tell me how he related that to you.

OSTERMAN: He said he went in between the sets of town homes down the dog path, a walking path.

O'MARA: When you say he, you mean Trayvon Martin?

OSTERMAN: Trayvon. Right. He lost contact in the darkness in between the town homes on that walking path and then he got out of his vehicle to -- it may have been at the time when someone was asking him, where is your exact location, because the officer was getting close. So as the police officer gets closer and closer to the actual scene, the dispatch likes to tell them exact street house - street numbers so you can find your place exactly.

O'MARA: OK.

OSTERMAN: So that's what he was looking for. O'MARA: George Zimmerman never told you during the entire - of this conversation that George Zimmerman ever went down the dog path, correct?

OSTERMAN: He did. He left his vehicle and he --

O'MARA: Walked down the path.

OSTERMAN: Walked down the path, correct.

O'MARA: Do you know this area that we're talking about?

OSTERMAN: I do.

O'MARA: OK. And you know the - there's a path that goes straight through to Retreat (ph) View (ph) Circle (ph) -

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: And then a right turn that goes off to the right?

OSTERMAN: A t, correct.

O'MARA: A t.

OSTERMAN: Yes.

O'MARA: And he had said to you that Trayvon Martin went down the t, correct?

OSTERMAN: Perhaps, yes. That's what he believes -

O'MARA: Well (ph) -

OSTERMAN: Because the street beyond was lit better than the dog path was. So if Trayvon had gone all the way to Retreat View Circle, he would have seen him or his shadow perhaps. Because he lost sight of him around the time where the t was, he just -- he said, I believe he made his turn down that dark dog path area that was not very well lit at all.

O'MARA: And tell us the path, if you recall, that George Zimmerman told you he took as he was on the phone.

OSTERMAN: He said he went straight to go through since he lost contact. He went -- wanted to go straight through to get a house number of one of the --

O'MARA: Straight through - straight on the path?

OSTERMAN: Straight through - straight through, not take the right to go down on the t, just to go straight through and find a - find some kind of a house number because you want to make sure you get the exact house number because there was a lot of units there on Retreat View Circle. The exact house number would have brought the police officer faster. I believe that's what his intent was. O'MARA: And he told you that he was on his way back when the altercation began, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: And that -- they said whatever they said to each other, as you testified to.

Just to fast forward, I think you said that you weren't taking notes during that event, correct?

OSTERMAN: I was driving, correct.

O'MARA: Have you ever talked to George again about the facts of this case or was that the only time?

OSTERMAN: One other time I heard him relay the incident.

O'MARA: And when was that?

OSTERMAN: The next morning.

O'MARA: OK. And we'll talk about that in a moment.

OSTERMAN: OK.

O'MARA: During the event in the car, when he said things like, do you have a problem? You do now or no I don't, are those as best you can recall the words that George told you he remembered from the night before?

OSTERMAN: That is correct.

O'MARA: And talking about the actual mounting when he said that Trayvon Martin had mounted him, I think you said that at one point he was straddling and the knees may have been up as high as the armpits, is that correct?

OSTERMAN: Could have been the rib area. Could have been as high as the armpits.

O'MARA: Well, no, no, I'm just asking you -

OSTERMAN: Yes.

O'MARA: Because what I would like to do is have you tell the jury, without presuming or suggesting ribs, armpits, hips, knees -

OSTERMAN: Right.

O'MARA: Whatever it might be, for right now just recount as best you recall what George remembered of the event and what he told you.

OSTERMAN: Well, I guess while -- during the struggle I guess the position of his knees and legs would probably change with George squirming. So at one point I believe they were around his ribs with George trying to squirm off of the sidewalk and on to the grass. I guess his knees came up a little higher and that's very possible, or the other way around to where it was, as he's squirming, once they get closer to the grass, in a fight, I guess, or in a scrap like that, it began at least here with the ribs, with the knee jerk somewhere in the ribs area.

O'MARA: Was he consistent, however, that it was Trayvon who mounted on top of him?

OSTERMAN: If it was Trayvon that did it (ph)?

O'MARA: Was it - yes.

OSTERMAN: Oh, absolutely.

O'MARA: And was he consistent that it was he, meaning George Zimmerman, who was screaming for help?

OSTERMAN: Without question.

O'MARA: And he did tell you at some point that there was some hand over the nose, hand over the mouth event?

OSTERMAN: Correct. But it was raining and it was slippery, I'm sure.

O'MARA: Did he tell you how long that portion of the overall altercation lasted?

OSTERMAN: Twenty seconds maybe. Fifteen, twenty, thirty seconds.

O'MARA: Did he -

OSTERMAN: He didn't mention it.

O'MARA: Well, again, I don't want any (INAUDIBLE) -

OSTERMAN: No, he didn't mention it. He did not say how long.

O'MARA: OK. Did that, however, as he related it to you, seem to be significant as it was occurring to him, that he could breathe for whatever length of time?

OSTERMAN: It was critical.

O'MARA: And that he had -- somebody had a hand, Trayvon Martin, on the nose that had already suffered the previous injury?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: And as he was relating that to you, was that sort of a - a real focus of his?

OSTERMAN: That was - that was the focus. That when he was losing oxygen, he felt he was - he was not able to breath, and that's why he was desperate to either (ph) clear an airway.

O'MARA: And in your experience as law enforcement, would you agree that that's sort of a natural reaction to traumatic events?

OSTERMAN: I would think so, every time I've seen it.

O'MARA: And do people involved in traumatic events like that sometimes focus on particular parts of it?

OSTERMAN: Almost exclusively to the admission of others.

O'MARA: For example, a car accidents you might focus on the speed of the car coming at you and completely forget about other cars around you?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

O'MARA: Is that unnatural in your experience as law enforcement that that's --

OSTERMAN: No, it's typical.

O'MARA: So when you hear, when you go to a scene of an accident or a shooting or just anything that you investigate, do you find, in your experience, that people often have sort of tunnel vision views of what happened to them?

OSTERMAN: Sometimes very specific, correct.

O'MARA: Does that mean that they're lying to you when they do that?

OSTERMAN: Not at all.

O'MARA: Why not?

OSTERMAN: That's - well, it's been proven that that is typical. Sometimes they'll focus on one event to the exclusion of others.

O'MARA: How about their ability to just recount events with any particular clarity at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to object, it's beyond the scope of (INAUDIBLE)?

JUDGE DEBRA NELSON: Sustained.

O'MARA: And then we talk -- you testified concerned this whole event around the gun. Did you have a similar concern as to Mr. Zimmerman's ability to recount those events to you?

OSTERMAN: No.

O'MARA: OK. Tell me what he did say about having to grab his gun.

OSTERMAN: He said that Trayvon had reached down and grabbed for the gun, whether it was on the leather holster or on the actual metal part itself. At the time, I didn't - I didn't see a difference. I just thought that the intent was clear. And that's when he had to -- he had - he freed one of his hands and went and got the gun. He either broke the - he'd have broke contact or knocked - knocked somebody else's hand away, or - no, Trayvon's hand away from him reaching for the gun or grabbing the gun and then he drew it.

O'MARA: Do you recall if he even told you that Trayvon Martin had touched the gun or he just said he was reaching for it?

OSTERMAN: I thought he had said he had grabbed the gun. I've only heard the story twice. And whether it was grabbed the gun, grabbed for the gun, I just -- perhaps it was just an intent. But I believed he said he grabbed the gun.

O'MARA: So - and then he told you the rest of the story as you've relayed it, correct?

OSTERMAN: Yes, sir.

O'MARA: About Trayvon Martin sort of saying something to him. Did that seem unusual to you that someone shot can still say something?

OSTERMAN: Yes. Oh, no, that's -- that's very, very common unless - unless you're shot in let's say the wind pipe, in the vocal cords, you would be able to talk for maybe 16 seconds.

O'MARA: Nonetheless, that George Zimmerman said that he had gotten off and actually held his hands out away from his body?

OSTERMAN: He had gotten off of - he had gotten off of George, laid down on the grass and George had jumped on top of him to pin his hands down and to, again, try to solicit some help from people that are around.

O'MARA: And yet one he let the hands go, Trayvon Martin may have brought them back under him. Is that the way it was presented to you?

OSTERMAN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, speculation. (INAUDIBLE).

OSTERMAN: Yes, no.

O'MARA: Did he even talk to -- did George Zimmerman even know to talk to you about the fact that Trayvon Martin's hands were found back under his body?

OSTERMAN: I did not know that fact.

O'MARA: OK. So he didn't seem to feel any need to explain that away to you, correct?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection.

O'MARA: So now let's talk about your recounting this - well, you said that you heard a story again the next day.

OSTERMAN: The next morning.

O'MARA: Any differences in what we talked about so far?

OSTERMAN: None.

O'MARA: OK. And who was that discussed with or in front of?

OSTERMAN: My wife and his wife, Shelly.

O'MARA: And was it different in any context when it was being discussed then?

OSTERMAN: It was -- George looked different. He was not as wide-eyed and he did not appear to be as in shock the next morning.

O'MARA: Now, let's fast forward. How many months until you decide to recount this in a book form?

OSTERMAN: I may have to look. At least four months.

O'MARA: OK. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Zimmerman to corroborate that what you recalled happened or what you recall him telling you happened was, in fact, accurate?

OSTERMAN: We were not able to contact each other after he was arrested the first time. So there was no contact.

O'MARA: All right. And - so you haven't talked to him -- you haven't shown him, for example, a draft of the book and say, I remember you saying this and him saying, no, I said this instead?

OSTERMAN: There was no -- no corroboration to that, no.

O'MARA: Yes. This is your memory.

BERNIE DE LA RIONDA, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think you've actually ...

OSTERMAN: Grabbed, right. Whether, it was -- I guess we were going over whether he grabbed the holster part or the gun, I didn't see a difference in the two, but grabbed.

DE LA RIONDA: He grabbed the gun? He didn't.0

OSTERMAN: The gun didn't come out, but he grabbed the gun in the holster.

DE LA RIONDA: That's what I'm saying.

OSTERMAN: Yes, sir.

DE LA RIONDA: The defendant didn't tell you -- Mr. Zimmerman didn't tell you he grabbed for it. He said he actually got it.

OSTERMAN: That's what I heard. That's what thought I heard. Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: All right. OK.

And then he told you, I thought I shot wide, but he might get up, so I put my gun in my holster.

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Then he said he put the phone in his pocket, turned around to head back and the guy was right there about 15 feet, walking towards him?

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you, sir.

OSTERMAN: Thank you.

O'MARA: (Inaudible) question and response.

As to the re-holstering of the weapon, do you recall if he told you that it was re-holstered as he got up, or if he had it in his hand when he was holding Trayvon Martin's hands down or even at some point shortly thereafter?

OSTERMAN: He may have had it. He may have had it in still his hand as he jumped on top of Trayvon and perhaps holstered when he saw a flashlight. I don't remember, specifically, when exactly he holstered his firearm.

O'MARA: Thank you. Nothing further, your honor.

NELSON: Any further redirect?

DE LA RIONDA: (Inaudible) that he holstered his firearm?

OSTERMAN: He holstered his firearm at some point. Exactly when, I'm not 100 percent sure whether it was when he got up from -- whether he stood up and reholstered, or whether he holstered while still partially on top.

DE LA RIONDA: Right. You want to look at your book a minute, page 29 at the bottom?

Did you quote him as saying, in fact, "I thought he might try to get up again, so after putting my gun in my holster, I jumped on top of him and pinned his wrists to the ground."

OSTERMAN: Correct.

DE LA RIONDA: Yeah, is that accurate?

OSTERMAN: As far as I remember that he holstered, yeah, at that point, now I remembers that -- I remember that he holstered, pinned his hands down.

It's what I -- I remembered him saying something like that.

DE LA RIONDA: Thank you, sir.

NELSON: Thank you. May Mr. Osterman be excused?

OK, thank you. You're excused from the courtroom, but you're subject to being recalled. OK, thank you very much.

Ladies and gentlemen, we'll go ahead and take a recess for lunch. Before you go to lunch, I'm going to advise you that during lunch you're not to discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anybody else. You're not to read or listen to any radio, television or newspaper reports about the case. You're not to go on the Internet by using any type of an electronic device to do independent research about the case, people, places, things or a terminology. And, finally, you're not to read or create any e-mails, text messages, twitters, tweets, blogs or social networking pages about the case.

Do I have your assurances that you'll abide by these instructions?

OK, thank you. And with that, put your notepads face down and follow Deputy Jarvis into the jury room.

(END LIVE FEED)

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