Also discussed were the factors that caused four jurors to hold out for life for the
|Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander in 2008|
You may see the video from the show below along with the transcript from that portion of the show.
New Jodi Hearing & Trial Coming Soon
Aired June 3, 2013 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Jodi`s jury watches video of her for the first time. Would this have changed their minds about her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife, she`s got a sixth sense about things. And she says oh, my gosh. She`s out there.
PINSKY: What if they`d seen it during the trial?
Then, a wife is dead just days after she files for divorce.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a fire. And my wife is, she shot herself, but she`s in the fire. There`s smoke everywhere.
PINSKY: The husband called 911. So why is he on trial for murder?
The behavior bureau has something to say about that.
Plus, America behind bars. I speak to teen mom Amber Portwood in jail.
And, was Michael Douglas` cancer caused by oral sex?
Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
My co-host this week is Michelle Ward, clinical psychologist and host of "Stalked" on Investigation Discovery.
And coming up, everybody, we have Tara and Diane. The jurors, the Jodi Arias jurors are back with us. They will react to video that they have never seen and stories they`ve never heard and we`ll ask them if this would have changed their position or swayed the jury in their opinion.
But first up, with Jodi`s second death penalty trial just weeks away, what enough information will factor in?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
JODI ARIAS, CONVICTED MURDERER: Samantha said Travis was the glue to their family. Travis called me. He was really upset. He said his grandmother was ill and frail and that he didn`t know she was going to make, because she was the glue to their family.
In many ways, my family has also suffered.
I missed high family. I moved away shortly after high school. And I`d come back to visit. And I realized over the years, Id missed out on a lot of things, my little brother and sister.
Their pain is fresh because they only learn about it two weeks ago, the moment the verdict was read.
My dad who`s here today was in California. Awaiting anxiously in front of the TV.
When I was 11 years old (INAUDIBLE) I apologize. When I was 11 years old, my little sister Angela was born.
I won`t be at my sister`s wedding, when she ties the knot next year. My brother, the boy I grew up with became a family man.
I can`t in good conscience ask you to sentence me to death because of them.
JENNIFER WILLMOTT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You don`t have any evidence of recurrent physical fights, do you?
WITNESS: No, just not recurrent physical fights, just the time that she had kicked her mom.
(END VIDEO CLIPS)
PINSKY: Michelle, you`re an expert in psychopathy. And here is somebody we speculated as a psychopath, acting -- presenting the story that she would think would make somebody sympathetic, not how she was actually feeling, right?
MICHELLE WARD, CO-HOST: I feel like she was presenting it for somebody else, like he was reading the script for somebody else, but her affect -- the way she presented herself, it didn`t look like her emotions matched what she was saying. It`s so disconcerting to watch because here she is fighting for her life, and she`s just it`s -- like she`s totally disconnected.
PINSKY: But she`s talking about a thing -- she`s learned enough to know that people are emotional about their family.
WARD: She knows it`s supposed to work.
PINSKY: Supposed to work. There we go.
Joining us now is investigative journalist and author of the forthcoming Jodi Arias book, "Picture Perfect", Shanna Hogan.
Shanna, what are the sources telling you about Travis` family and the next round?
SHANNA HOGAN, AUTHOR (via telephone): Yes. Thank you so much, Dr. Drew.
In Arizona, as you may know, as well as many other states, the family gets a say in the matters, including whether or not to settle or take a plea, and the family in this case, according to my sources, definitely wants to go ahead and trying to get the death penalty. They feel like they`ve run this mess on, they`ve gone this far and they want to see it through. They want justice for their brother.
PINSKY: Thank you, Shanna.
Joining us to discuss, attorney and Sirius XM radio host, Jenny Hutt, Mark Eiglarsh, attorney at speaktomark.com, and Loni Coombs, attorney and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Mark, if Jodi were to get life in prison, let`s say she doesn`t get the death penalty, even though the family wants to go after that, is there a chance she could still be paroled?
MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, under the current law, the answer unfortunately, is yes. However, the judge would decide, assuming she gets life, either life without parole or life with the possibility of parole after 25 years.
The chances in my opinion of this judge giving her the chance of getting parole is so low, so remote, it approaches almost no real value. Under a new law, which does not apply to Jodi unfortunately, called life means life, that would change. You`d have to do natural life if you`re convicted of premeditated first degree murder.
PINSKY: But she -- does not ally to her, right?
EIGLARSH: Does not, no.
PINSKY: Got it.
Now, Jodi`s Twitter account has been active again. There`s a new tweet that says, "I will be sorry for the rest of my life, probably longer." She signs it me and cites her May 21st statement to the jury.
Jenny, I know this drives you insane.
JENNY HUTT, RADIO HOST: Insane, it drives me bonkers, Dr. Drew. I mean, is she really not just quoting herself but quoting herself? Does she really tag it like that? I mean, I don`t get it.
She`s a monster, Dr. Drew. I`ve had it. Had it.
PINSKY: Loni, what do you think is going to go down in this follow-up round two? Do you think we`re going to have a long, drawn out trial again where Jodi gets back up on the stand?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: Well, I do. I think if it goes, it`s going to take a long time and Jodi`s going to take her time, just like she always is. She`s not going to change. I don`t know if she knows how to change.
But I still think, even though the victim`s family is saying that they want to go forward with the death penalty, I still think there`s a chance between now and July when the case starts again that they might decide, look, we have finally pulled back, we are back in our families and our lives, and maybe if we know for sure it`s life without the possibility of parole but real life we might consider it.
And honestly, I think if Jodi would agree as part of that plea deal to just shut up, no more tweeting, no more videos, no more interviews, no more manifestos, I think that might go a long way to actually bringing the family some comfort --
EIGLARSH: Loni --
COOMBS: -- because honestly, she`s not allowing Travis to rest in peace. She`s still going after him.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Mark.
EIGLARSH: You know, if -- but telling Jodi to somehow stop speaking and stop torturing the victim`s family, it`s like with my dog, you get a temporary reprieve, like place, and then you walk away and then he jumps right up to bark again, you know? You don`t get what you want out of her.
COOMBS: Right. That`s absolutely right. I agree with you. I don`t know if it`s in her. But I think if there was some way that someone could talk her into it -- that would go a long way with the victim`s family.
PINSKY: I think it would, but I don`t think it`s likely to happen.
Thank you, guys.
Next up, juror #6 and juror #17 are back with us for a primetime exclusive. We will show them evidence they saw during the trial. There they are.
And later, did divorce papers drive an ex-cop to murder his wife and burn their house down? We have a behavior bureau on this guy. I`ve got a lot of thoughts on this one.
Stay with us.
PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Michelle Ward.
And just a reminder, I know you`ve been watching on Nancy and Jane. The Seacat murder trial, we`re going to get to that in just a second. As I said, we`ve got a behavior bureau standing by to ring in on what is going on there.
Joining the two of us are two of Jodi`s jurors, Diane Schwartz, who voted for the death penalty for Jodi, and Tara Kelley, an alternate who would have voted for the death penalty. They are going to react to some video that the jury did not see during the trial to see if it would have persuaded some of their cohorts to perhaps consider more along the way they were thinking.
But, first, here`s a clip from an interview I did with Travis` good friend Chris Hughes. He`s telling a story about how creepy Jodi`s behavior was. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS HUGHES, SAYS JODI WAS EAVESDROPING ON THEM: My wife, you know, she`s got a sixth sense about things, and she says oh, my gosh. She`s out there.
And then there`s a knock at the door, and this is Jodi. Now, this is in the late hours of the night. She`s supposed to be asleep in another bedroom. We continue our conversation, maybe another 45 minutes to an hour goes by, and my wife gets this feeling again, and she goes she`s out there again.
So, Travis jumps off the bed, jerks the door open, and there`s Jodi arias with the most frightening, evil -- I mean, I`ve never seen anything like it before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Tara, we heard a lot of people reporting things like that here on this program, and other programs were reporting the same thing. I don`t think you guys heard anything like that in the courtroom. Do you think that would have persuaded any of your peers?
TARA KELLEY, JUROR #17 IN JODI ARIAS TRIAL: You know, the stalking evidence, I don`t know that that was really as big of an issue, you know? I think the four that voted for life, you know, they did so because more of the abuse aspect of it than the stalking aspect of it.
PINSKY: Diane, how about you?
DIANE SCHWARTZ, JUROR #6 IN JODI ARIAS TRIAL: I tend to agree with Tara. I think that there was a real concern on the verbal abuse. But having said that, I think you could also look a little bit towards her behaviors and start to see that maybe he indeed was fearful or she was problematic, a little bit more to her personality.
PINSKY: Yes. See, that`s where we got listening to the friends and family and everyone talk about what went down was that -- I know Mark Eiglarsh is standing by, I`m going to have him ring in here in a second. But that we kind of understand that that verbal abuse was a flurry at the end out of frustration from her behavior -- Mark.
EIGLARSH: Yes, Diane. I`m dying to ask you this question.
So, you go back and you`re deliberating whether she should live or die. Four people say we think it`s abuse. I`m imagining the others are saying abuse? You mean harsh words for a psycho ex?
What was said to that person or persons and what was their response in trying to articulate, no, we really think it was abuse as opposed to just harsh words for someone?
SCHWARTZ: We didn`t have any violence in the jury room at all. But that abuse issue was one of an emotional and verbal. And for those people, they felt very strongly that it had been ongoing for some period of time.
It was not something that I felt. And I said even if it was just a short period of time or it was a few text messages in a group of text messages, I don`t think we`ve seen a full picture. But, remember, it was their own personal decision.
PINSKY: Michelle, one of the things we didn`t hear from on the stand was anybody testifying about psychopathy. Do you think that was a missed opportunity, people could have understood that goal-directed behavior she was involved in?
WARD: I don`t know. I think it`s kind of a catch-22 because we also say those people are deficient, they`re incapable of understanding right from wrong. They`re incapable of feeling these proper emotions. So, then, are we kind of giving her pass? I mean, can we convict her of a crime if she doesn`t understand the difference between right and wrong, per se?
So, I don`t know. I think that`s a slippery slope.
But I want to ask these lovely ladies something. We were frustrated watching all this stalking stuff and all this creepy behavior by Jodi. We got to watch it. You guys didn`t get to see it, but did it come across? Did her nastiness telegraph to you?
PINSKY: Tara, you first.
KELLEY: I think so. To me, I thought that there was enough proof between some of the witnesses who were briefly able to say something about Jodi stalking Travis, and I do feel that even some of the text messages came across that you know it is possible he was fearful of Jodi.
SCHWARTZ: I definitely feel that her demeanor and mannerisms came through and that people felt that. You know, kind of going back onto that verbal abuse, remember that some of the other factors that they looked at were that her age and no criminal history. And those were important to them.
So, even though we or I saw it and Tara saw it, many times, other people don`t see those things.
PINSKY: Let me -- I`m going to show you guys now a tape of the police speaking to Jodi`s dad. Now, I know you didn`t see any of the interrogation tapes, but you`ve seen some of the mother`s tapes since the trial. You`ve not seen this particular tape of the dad. So, let`s listen to what he says.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
INTERROGATOR: The only thing I don`t have is why. Why she committed this --
JODI ARIAS` DAD: I know, man. She was getting along with him so good. That day I called her and she couldn`t even talk, and I go, "What`s going on?" She goes, "Travis was murdered."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Michelle, flush it out to the jurors to what we saw, which is the sort of relating to the daughter having a really serious deficit and then him seeming to be kind of cold also. What did you see there?
WARD: Right. Well, you see that kind of callous, lack of emotion at the very minimum. I`m looking at that thinking, well, your daughter`s a little psychopathic and doesn`t have great emotional connection and maybe he doesn`t either. He doesn`t seem to be in disbelief over this. He seems like, wow, yes, gosh, looks like somebody was murdered, maybe Jodi did it. That to me is so telling.
PINSKY: Diane, do you have reaction to that tape?
SCHWARTZ: I could definitely see that no remorse there. And, and that did hit me. And it`s of concern to me. Maybe that`s a part of her family. I don`t know.
PINSKY: Yes, psychopathy has a genetic basis to it.
Jenny, do you have a question?
HUTT: I did. Mark`s question is what I was thinking about, but to take it one step farther regarding the abuse that the four jurors thought happened that I definitely don`t think happened. Was any of it tied to the sexual stuff and sexual content of the texting and the recorded voice mails and conversation?
PINSKY: Either of you?
SCHWARTZ: I think the majority of it was tied to the texts, some of the e-mails, some of the -- just the barbs that went back and forth. Also her description about how Travis essentially forced her to have sex but yet she said she liked to have sex. And they only heard part of it, and that`s what they heard. That was the most important element and their perception and their feelings of her.
And I guess you have to respect that. I don`t understand that, not at all.
PINSKY: Tara, your thoughts?
KELLEY: Yes, I agree. As far as going back to her dad`s video, yes. You can definitely see no remorse. And if you compare her mom`s video to her dad`s video, it`s totally opposite. Her mom was -- didn`t seem really that surprised I don`t think, but she seemed a lot more emotional than her dad did. Her dad didn`t seem like he was really surprised at all.
PINSKY: OK. We`re going to take a quick break. We`ll be back with more.
And a reminder, we`re going to get to that trial that`s gone going, the Seacat case, where the guy -- well, we got a behavior panel set up, ready to go. Melted gas can, a suicide note, looks like forgery, it all adds up to murder we think.
Back after this.