Jodi Arias trial day 37
Arias Court Adjourns for the Day
Aired March 27, 2013 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The judge`s assistant came out and said court will not be held.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) we are recessing for the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... migraine she`s having (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... complaints that she has been faint, hasn`t had lunch served to her, needed a power bar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to recess for the day.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jennifer Wilmott said, I want her to take her medicine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Comments concerning her illness.
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: He was being a complete bully at that point and I was tired of being bullied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) don`t say (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you (INAUDIBLE) feel like you were raped?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, is it your ultimate goal in life to be Mr. Alexander`s whore?
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, BATTERED WOMEN`S SYNDROME EXPERT: The person who is mistreating you stops respecting you at all.
ARIAS: Calls me a bitch, he tells me I`m worthless and he tells me I`m (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
LAVIOLETTE: We tend to blame victims for their own victimization.
ARIAS: Whenever he got mad, it was like -- it was like being in an earthquake.
It was just -- I felt bullied, like (INAUDIBLE) miserable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. The judge sends the jury home! Why? As we go to air, we learn the whole kit and kaboodle, the jury, the judge, witnesses, bailiffs, court reporters, lawyers, everybody all sent home because Jodi Arias says she has a headache.
And also, in the last hours, we learn Arias`s defense team insisting Travis Alexander is not a victim and under no circumstances should be called a victim in front of the jury. After 29 stab wounds, a gunshot wound to the head and his neck sliced, not a victim? Do they think this jury and all of us are stupid? They`ve got a nerve!
We are camped outside the courthouse, taking your calls live. Straight out, first to you, Alexis Weed. A migraine? A headache?
ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s what we`re hearing, Nancy. We were all sent home today based on what a source is telling me was a migraine that Jodi Arias was suffering from.
Now, remember, this isn`t the first time we`ve heard about Jodi Arias having migraines. Back on February 26th, her defense attorney argued that she wasn`t getting enough food, and alluded to migraines that Arias was suffering from. At that point -- that was another day when we went home early from court, all because of Jodi Arias`s problems, apparently.
GRACE: OK, let`s take a listen to that sound, February 26th, not that long ago. Court adjourned again because Jodi Arias claimed she`s got a headache.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Arias has not, throughout the course of this trial, had access to lunches. The sheriff`s office has not provided them to her. And my first request is that this court order that they do so.
My second request related to that is related to the migraine she`s having and the feeding therein that we -- And I misspoke a little bit earlier -- about 4:20. But as long as we`re out of here, done by 4:30, as opposed to letting it go past, we should be fine in that regard just as long as we do make 4:30 a drop-dead time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, as we discussed earlier, I believe the sheriff`s office has agreed to provide lunches.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I hardly think that the use of the phrase "drop dead time" was appropriate, talking about Jodi Arias, having to stop court every day -- that`s where they got the 4:30 stop time, everyone. They got that because of Jodi Arias needed to have a power bar or court ending at 4:30.
We are live and taking your calls. I want to go back out to you, Alexis. Alexis, I`m talking specifically about today. What happened?
WEED: Right, so Nancy, there was a hearing this morning. It was on an unrelated matter. And Arias was there this morning. She was present. At one point, she was given a glass of water by her attorney.
And today, though, I`m told that Arias felt like she was going to throw up by the time that she got to the continuation of her trial. And so we were all just sent home, everyone, including the defense expert that was scheduled to testify today, Alyce LaViolette.
GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing in court -- apparently, this is not the first time that this has happened. Feb (SIC) 26th, the defense attorneys insist that 4:30 be the drop dead latest that Arias can stay in the courtroom. They whine that the jail is not giving her either enough or the correct amount of food, and they`re now wanting power bars.
You know, I recall distinctly the same thing happening in the tot mom, Casey Anthony, trial. Let`s see it, Dana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, we`re going to recess for the day. There are some events that have occurred that causes us to stop at this time. I don`t want you to speculate or try to guess at why we`re ending early. It`s just simply we are ending at this time.
OK, ladies and gentlemen of the media, Ms. Anthony is ill. We are recessing for the day. Neither the state nor the defense has any comments concerning her illness, nor do they want to be interviewed. I would ask that you preserve their privacy as they leave the courthouse today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All right, so she`s pulling a tot mom, in more ways than one.
But I want to get back to what has just gone down in the courtroom. We have learned exclusively the real reason court was adjourned and everybody sent home, including that long-suffering jury, is because Arias claims she has a headache. Now, let`s analyze this.
Matt Zarell, we know that she developed her migraine today after a secret meeting about not letting the public find out how much her defense was costing. Is that correct?
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Yes, Nancy, that is correct.
GRACE: Now, how much do we know the defense is costing?
ZARRELL: It`s over $800,000 at this point, and estimates say it could go over a million by the time the trial is over.
GRACE: And the defense is claiming that it should be kept secret because of attorney/client privilege. But we, the taxpayers, are the ones paying for that.
Also, let me go to you -- Steve Helling is joining us, staff writer with "People" magazine -- Arias featured in the latest issue. Steve, you were there when I was covering tot mom every day. What was happening when tot mom developed her headache, her illness, and suddenly everybody had to go home? Do you recall what was happening?
STEVE HELLING, "PEOPLE": I remember that day very, very well. And it was one of those things where things weren`t really going the defense`s way that day when that happened.
And you know, I`m not saying, Nancy, that there`s not stress involved in being a murder defendant. We all know there is. But it did feel at the time as though that was just her way of -- you know, when you were a kid and didn`t want to go to school, you pretended to be sick. And that`s how it felt with the Casey Anthony case.
GRACE: And so Alexis, what is happening today -- hold on. I hear we`re being joined by Beth Karas. Beth, we`re in the middle of Alyce LaViolette`s testimony. She is not going to be allowed to say, to my understanding, to make out Travis as a batterer. Is that true?
BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION": Well, we do know that the state`s rebuttal witness, the defense argued, should not be able to say Travis Alexander is not a batterer. So I`m assuming the reverse is true, that this witness cannot say he is a batterer. She`ll probably try. She certainly will say everything but that in laying out the characteristics of one, I suppose.
And everything seems to be dovetailing. The way Jodi Arias testified dovetails perfectly with what we`re hearing from LaViolette.
GRACE: Well, another thing that`s happening -- Jean Casarez now joining us. Jean, the defense is about to conclude. LaViolette is probably the last witness, unless they`ve got a surprise for us. That means it`s getting time for the state`s rebuttal case, if they`re allowed and if they do put one on.
And that could very well would include Matt McCartney. So she`s looking down the wrong end of a barrel right now if they bring Matt McCartney in. So she suddenly develops a headache today. Court is canceled. Court is called off because Jodi Arias needs a power bar and needs to take a rest.
What can Matt McCartney do to her if he`s the first rebuttal witness? I`m just wondering if she got wind of that today.
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Matt McCartney, at least if we listen to the prosecutor in court repeatedly say, So he`s the one that would never betray you, right? He`s the one that would always stand by your side.
Well, that`s not what he said in January. And I think that he underwent an interview where he said inconsistencies as to what Jodi is saying, because, remember, we had heard that he was the one that saw her broken fingers. He was the one that saw maybe marks around her neck that she tried to cover up with makeup. He would be the one to substantiate that she was a victim of physical abuse. I think he could be on the stand for that rebuttal case.
GRACE: And I guarantee you Martinez was laying the foundation to bring in Matt McCartney.
Everyone, we learn exclusively the real reason everyone was sent home packing was because Arias claims she`s sick.
You know what? Travis Alexander, 29 stab wounds, neck sliced, his head sustaining a mortal wound, and she claims she has a headache.
Also, Jean Casarez, did you notice that her lawyers are passing her medication in court?
CASAREZ: I didn`t see the medication. I saw a glass of water and Jennifer Wilmott pouring that for her, putting it in Jodi`s hand and telling the sheriff`s deputy today -- and this was about maybe 9:30 this morning, I would say -- Make sure she takes her medication.
But we know from early on her attorney in open court was concerned about her -- the lack of food she was getting and the migraine headaches that she was suffering. So I definitely think she has an issue in that area with her headaches and migraines. And yesterday on the record, we found out that she needed food and they gave her nutrition bars because she felt faint.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Leigh Vinocur, emergency room physician joining us out of Maryland. Dr. Vinocur, wouldn`t you expect for someone now suffering migraines to have a history of migraines? I mean, my sister`s migraines -- she didn`t get a headache, but she was giving a class presentation in the 5th grade and suddenly had tunnel vision.
DR. LEIGH VINOCUR, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN (via telephone): Well, there are many different types of migraines, Nancy. And many people have them, and they start sometimes for women right at menarche, when they get their periods or when they`re -- you know, young boys can even get them.
But not all presentations are the same, but there is this aura sometimes where you do have visual problems. Sometimes you could even have speaking problems. There was a reporter in California...
GRACE: Well, what about stress? What I`m saying, Dr. Vinocur, is you just don`t suddenly, at an advanced state (ph) in your life, start to get migraines. This is something that people suffer with and grapple with their whole life. And I`m just wondering if stress would bring on a migraine.
VINOCUR: Well, stress definitely can bring on a migraine. You can develop a migraine at any time in your life. There are certain times where you`re more predisposed to have it, but -- hormone fluxes for women. So they could -- but you can develop a migraine at menopause, at menarche. You can...
VINOCUR: ... develop it at any time, and stress is usually one of the (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: It`s interesting. Throughout all of her psychological evaluations, she was never once diagnosed as suffering from migraines. Also, in her jail book-ins (ph) and in her jail medical records, there`s nothing to say that she has ever been treated for a migraine. It`s only when the going gets tough in the courtroom that she suddenly has a migraine and everybody has to go home.
We are taking your calls. Out to Liz in New York. Hi, Liz. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. I have a comment and a quick question. I`m really starting to get upset on how everybody is portraying Martinez. And it`s really upsetting me. I just watched when he tried Wendy Adriano (ph), the one he put on death row. And he`s just passionate. He`s speaking for Travis Alexander. And I`m glad he`s the one that got this case because...
GRACE: Right. So your question is what?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my -- that was just a quick comment about him and his pitbull style that everybody needs to lay off of that. But my question is, does anybody know what books she`s read in jail over the last five years? Because it just seems to me that her whole defense is so rehearsed, like she studied her (ph) that guy`s (ph) testimony. Like, everything around it just seems so strange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "In the moments of stress or fog, how do you recall what happened in those moments if it affects your memory?"
ARIAS: Physical things I can remember because I feel them physically.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You can`t remember how you stabbed him so many times and slashed his throat."
ARIAS: The confusion comes in when he begins to get angry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with your memory?
ARIAS: I don`t think I have a problem. I think I have a really excellent memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have a problem with your memory?
ARIAS: Sometimes yes. Sometimes no.
I think that I have a good memory.
The fog or the confusion, I don`t recall clearly what happens in those moments as far as details.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Is there anyone else who knows about your memory issues?"
ARIAS: I don`t think I have memory issues.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. Then that`s your answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are camped outside the Phoenix courthouse, bringing you the very latest. And we learn exclusively from a source within the courthouse that the real reason the jury was sent home packing is because Arias claims to have a headache.
Now, this is not an unusual ploy. When something is going wrong for you in court, when you want to coach your witness, when you are concerned that the other side is getting momentum, you think up a reason, any reason, to stop court. Today, it was a headache. That`s been used before. Tot mom did it. It happens all the time.
But you know, for those of you that haven`t had to deal with defendants, felony defendants in court, felony defendants come into court under all sorts of circumstances. For instance, Joshua -- what`s Joshua`s last name? Joshua Beadle (ph). Observe him being gagged in court. This is what happens when defendants act out in court, they won`t be quiet for testimony. Under our Constitution, they must be present in court when testimony occurs.
There`s Christopher Lightsey (ph). Same thing. He is gagged in court. Brian David Mitchell (ph) -- he was responsible for the kidnapping and mistreatment of Elizabeth Smart. He was gagged in court. Charles Cohen (ph) -- the list goes on and on and on.
So unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, Shelly Wojohn (ph).
Peter Odom, she has a headache so court`s dismissed yet again?
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, it`s her trial. The state is trying to kill her. The state is trying to put her death.
GRACE: No. The state...
ODOM: She has to be present.
GRACE: Is trying to effect justice. She murdered Travis Alexander.
ODOM: The state is trying to put her to death, Nancy. That`s what this case is about. It`s her trial...
GRACE: The state is trying to get a verdict that speaks the truth. And court...
ODOM: The death verdict.
GRACE: ... goes on even when people have headaches. There`s nothing in the Constitution...
ODOM: No, Nancy.
GRACE: ... that says court is adjourned if you have a headache.
ODOM: If it`s -- don`t forget, if she can`t be physically present, if she`s so sick that she can`t physically understand what`s going on, then court can`t happen. Now, you`re assuming...
ODOM: ... that she`s faking it. You`re assuming she`s faking it.
GRACE: Wait! Wa-wait! Wa-wait! You`re telling me because she`s got a headache, she can`t hear what`s going on in the courtroom?
GRACE: If she has the good sense to screw that chair down to make her appear shorter than her female defense lawyer, I think she knows what`s going on in court, Peter. I think this is just a ploy because she didn`t like the way it was going with LaViolette!
ODOM: I know that that`s what you think, Nancy, and you might not believe that she really has a headache. But you know whose opinion is the only one that counts is the judge`s, and the judge thinks she`s got a headache.
GRACE: Well, I think you`re leaving out the jury, Peter Odom!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: The evidence is very compelling, but none of it proves that I committed a murder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had dated someone earlier that year. She slashed her tires. She had followed us on the first date that we went on. She had broken into his e-mail accounts, his bank accounts. She would sneak into his house through the doggy door and sleep on his couch at night without him knowing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had told us that he wasn`t dating her and he thought that she was following him around. And that`s when she had been caught snooping around and peeking into his windows at his house.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are hearing the attributes, the characteristics of exactly what the defense expert is describing in court.
Out to you, Matt Zarell. The way that they are trying to portray Travis Alexander, all of those adjectives, all of those descriptions apply to Jodi Arias.
ZARRELL: Yes, absolutely, Nancy, specifically jealousy and the controlling behavior that LaViolette says was characteristics of the abuser. We know from guests on our show, including Clancy Talbott (ph), and evidence presented in court that If anything, Arias was the one who was controlling everything.
GRACE: Back to the lawyers. Kelly Saindon joining me out of Chicago and Peter Odom joining me out of Atlanta. Shelly Wuton (ph) also joining us, defense attorney.
Kelly Saindon, let me ask you your opinion of what went down in court today. And I`m talking about court once again adjourning, everybody, bailiffs, witnesses, jury, you name it -- everybody`s got to go home because Arias claims she`s got another headache.
KELLY SAINDON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, Nancy? I think you nailed it. I think it was stressful for her. I think she didn`t like the way that it was going. She is a controlling person, based on what we`ve seen. And I think that was her out. It was a stall tactic by the defense. And using the fact that she hasn`t gotten lunch as an excuse seemed very convenient today because that`s -- this trial has been going on for a long time. How is this specific to today? I think she knew that it was very damaging testimony. She didn`t want to deal with it. And so it was a let`s take a break and then forget everybody else and the inconvenience (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Why can`t they just give her an aspirin, for Pete`s sake?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) of slashing Mr. Alexander`s throat?
ARIAS: No. I feel like I`m the person who deserves to sit with those memories that I don`t have right now.
Things just get scrambled.
I didn`t consider when he pushed me down twice violent.
He kicked my ribs and it really hurt.
-- choked me until I lost consciousness.
I just remember everything going black. I couldn`t breathe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All-access pass to your body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Introduced Mr. Alexander to KY.
ARIAS: Some of the activities that he wanted to do were painful without it.
I loved Travis Alexander so completely.
"He makes me sad and miserable. I quite, can`t put my finger on it, but something is just off with that boy."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Masturbating to an image of a child.
ARIAS: It was shocking. I cannot marry him. He won the white fluttery. I took it as a very high compliment. I was devastated when I discovered that he wasn`t being faithful to me. I wish I could turn back the clock. I just wish I could die. I wish that suicide was a way out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Today, a hearing was held to try to keep secret, away from you and me, how much the defense is spending on Jodi Arias` trial. That is a motion lodged by the defense. I have it right here in front of me. They do not want the public or me or you to know how much it`s costing.
That`s not the only thing that the jury will never hear about. Let`s take a look at evidence this jury will never see. First of all, Jodi Arias, fluffing her hair and doing a head stand. Let`s get that video. Arias, singing about her memory. Jodi Arias digging through the trash can, I guess, looking for the interrogation notes.
Jodi coming over, unannounced, and sleeping in Travis` lap. Jodi Arias singing behind bars. Now she won "American Idol" behind -- can we go back to what we were talking about? She won "American Idol" behind bars. Travis Alexander and girlfriend`s tires, slashed. They will never know about that, that Arias did that.
It seems wrong that you and I know this, but the jury won`t. Letters that Jodi Arias claims came from Travis, that she sent her mother to "The National Enquirer" with possibly fake letters, the fact that Arias tried to enter a guilty plea to murder two, making no mention whatsoever of self- defense.
She wanted to plead guilty. That she confronted friends and other women in jealous rages, that she sent an e-mail to a friend -- to a woman that Travis was dating, calling her a shameful whore. That gun, bullets, rental car, all ready to go the morning that Arias was arrested. And there is so much more, including this motion today.
Out to you, Jean Casarez, the motion which kind of brought on Jodi Arias` migraine, tell me about it.
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, the -- the defense is asking for a protective order, that all of the specifics of the billing records are not made public and they specifically don`t want the prosecutor to know about it.
Remember, these attorneys are appointed. They`re paid for though the county. The taxpayers are paying it. And every time they bill hours, be it an attorney, an expert or a consultant, they have to write the work that they`ve done. They say that`s work product. It violates the attorney/client privilege, it violates her right to a fair trial, and the prosecutor could use it in the trial and even in the penalty phase, which would jeopardize her right to that fair trial.
GRACE: We are taking your calls, out to Linda in Ohio. Hi, Linda. What`s your question?
LINDA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Nancy. Well, a comment. First of all, I have a comment. I think that Jodi Arias, she went premeditated to kill not only Travis, but I think she thought maybe his new girlfriend was there.
GRACE: Well, I don`t know about that because she had been having sex with him all day long. I don`t think the girlfriend was hiding in a potted plant, but I agree with you that it was premeditated. Because, Linda in Ohio, you`re dead on about that. She covers up her entire script. She won`t even stop to get gas because she`s afraid she`ll have a receipt with her name on it or be caught on surveillance at a 7-Eleven.
She buys a gun later in secrecy, prepares by stealing her grandfather`s gun. She doesn`t tell anybody where she`s going. In fact, she makes up a scenario that she`s going somewhere else. I mean, it`s very clearly premeditated. I agree with you about that. And the state is seeking murder one.
Out to Julie in Washington. Hi, Julie. What`s your question?
JULIE, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi, Nancy. I love you and your twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
JULIE: And this is my first time ever calling into your show.
GRACE: Well, welcome.
JULIE: Thank you. I have a comment. I don`t doubt for a moment that she`s having almost constant migraines because she knows she`s very close to getting the death penalty.
GRACE: I think you`re right, Julie. I mean -- but it seems to me that she uses this excuse whenever she doesn`t like what`s going on in court.
And, you know, Steve Helling, joining me from "People" magazine, Arias is featured in their latest issue. There`s been one slowdown after the next in this trial, largely by the defense.
STEVE HELLING, STAFF WRITER, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Yes, that is true. Nancy, you are going to yell at me when I say this, but --
GRACE: Then why are you saying it? Why are you even starting up?
HELLING: What I want you to know, though, is that if you`ve ever had a migraine, they are debilitating. I`m not saying at all that it`s not brought on for any other reason, but there could be a situation where if she does have a migraine that everything is excruciating. If you`ve ever been through one, I`m sure, you know, a lot of people out there have.
GRACE: I think I`m getting one right now, as a matter of fact.
HELLING: Well, I just had to say that, Nancy.
GRACE: Steve, Steve, look.
GRACE: I have migraines in my family. I know how awful they can be.
GRACE: And especially as I said, my sister started having them in the fifth grade. So I don`t think that Jodi Arias suddenly started getting migraines coincidentally around the time of this trial. All right?
HELLING: Yes, you have a point.
GRACE: She didn`t get the migraine the day that she murdered Travis Alexander. As a matter of fact on that day when stress was at an all-time high, she didn`t get a migraine. She went into a fog.
Let`s talk about the fog she went into, Helling. I`m actually glad you brought that up.
Matt Zarrell, I`ve been taking a very critical look at when the fog rolled in and when the fog rolled back out again. Let`s talk about the fog. Bring me up to date, Matt.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Well, actually, Nancy, it depends on who you talk to because Dr. Richard Samuels says the fog --
GRACE: The fog timeline. Go ahead.
ZARRELL: OK. So here you go. So the fog all happened. In this fog she stabs Travis 29 times, slits his throat from ear to ear. She drags his body back into the shower, she washes his body off with -- off with the blood. She cleans the bathroom floor with the cups of water. She then drops the knife in the bathroom, she deletes photos from the camera. She throws the camera and the bedding in the washing machine. She puts the knife in the dishwasher.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sexual humiliation is where you`re having people do things that they might go along with, but lowers their self-esteem or using sex as a way to control.
ARIAS: Hasn`t found the guy, the man that I want to marry that I want to spend my life with.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Victims of domestic violence do not like to talk about sexual abuse because they feel that they`re as responsible as the other person.
ARIAS: But in my mind -- Travis is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did they punch or have multiple attacks or whatever? And did they earlier on just hit or slap because there tends to be an escalation over time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were probably standing above him when he was in the shower when you shot him in the head?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are taking your calls. Camped outside the courthouse where we learn, once again, the tail wags the dog. Court ends when Arias claims she`s got a headache.
Now we were talking because Steve Helling, "People" magazine, mentioned the fog. I believe that`s how it went down.
Matt, as you were saying, let`s take it from the top. Give me the fog timeline.
ZARRELL: OK. So this is all stuff that she did during this fog that she said she has. She stabs Travis 29 times. She slits his throat from ear to ear. She drags his body back into the shower. She washes his body off because it`s covered in blood. She cleans the bathroom floor with cups of water. She drops the knife in the bathroom. She deletes photos from the camera.
She throws the camera and the bedding in the washing machine. She puts the knife in the dishwasher. She takes the rope and gun with her and drives through the desert. She filled up on gas. She threw the gun in the desert somewhere, she dumped the rope in -- she dumped the rope in a dumpster near St. George, Utah. Washed the blood off of her with water from -- that you remember from Costco.
Put on shoe because she wasn`t wearing shoes at that point. Drove through the police checkpoint at the Hoover Dam. Left a voice mail for Travis Alexander which she edited multiple times, called Ryan Burns and Leslie Udy to explain she got lost. Drove to Ryan Burns` house and spent almost the whole day and made out with him.
Now one thing I want to point out here, though, Nancy, is it depends on who you talk to when the fog ended. Because Arias says the fog ended when -- she was still in the fog when she was kissing Ryan Burns. However, Dr. Samuels said that the fog ended when she was at the police checkpoint, way before she was with Ryan Burns.
GRACE: OK. Back to the lawyers. Kelly Saindon, former prosecutor, Chicago, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. Shelli Wojohn, defense attorney, Atlanta.
You know, Shelli, she`s having a hard time identifying when the fog rolls in and when the fog rolls out. It`s very difficult for me to believe that she left repeated voicemails, which she kept erasing and editing on Travis Alexander`s voicemail to pretend she hadn`t just slaughtered him, butchered him like a pig in the shower?
She was like, hey, have you cashed that check? Then she proceeds through the Hoover Dam police checkpoint and literally, physically, hops on top and straddles her new boyfriend.
Now she said that she was still foggy when she was in a, quote, "love ball" with her new boyfriend. But then on another occasion she said that the fog dissipated when she was near the Hoover Dam police checkpoint, which makes sense.
I mean, I think if I had just murdered somebody, if I saw a police checkpoint, that would kind of get me out of the fog.
SHELLI WOJOHN, ATTORNEY: I think it`s one of those where she just is disassociating from what it is that she`s done. And having to --
GRACE: Disassociating? Whoa, whoa, what is that? Now am I correct? You have your JD, not your MD, correct?
WOJOHN: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: All right. So what is disassociating? What is that?
WOJOHN: I think it`s just removing herself from the situation, not accepting what it is that she`s done, but then having to come back --
GRACE: You mean lie? Nobody telling --
WOJOHN: At the time she was lying and she did admit that. But now she`s having to tell the truth, relive the truth and it`s hard for her. It`s something that is difficult for her to accept.
GRACE: OK. Somewhere in all of that, which is beautiful, by the way, Shelli, did you answer my question or did it just like fly over -- did it disappear into the fog, too? What was your answer about the fog?
WOJOHN: As far as her like -- why did it come and go at the time?
GRACE: No. Why is she changing her story, and how could that be true?
WOJOHN: Changing her story in terms of -- at what point?
GRACE: The fog.
WOJOHN: The fog.
GRACE: It`s either got to be the Hoover Dam or hopping on top of Ryan Burns. Those are the two times she said the fog went away. And she could suddenly remembered everything and realized that she was a killer.
WOJOHN: But she said that -- she never realized or she never remembered exactly all of those times, the stabbing, the slicing his throat, the cleaning and all of that. Those are still blanks in her memory. But it`s what she did that she`s having to live with and come to terms with.
GRACE: Out to Dr. Leslie Seppinni, clinical psychologist. What`s happening? What is this business about the fog going in and out? It`s like the migraines that only manifest when she doesn`t like what`s going on in court.
LESLIE SEPPINNI, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Listen, when you disassociate -- and by the way, I`ve had that experience because I was raped and molested -- you know what you`re doing. The issue is that you`re totally connected at the time in terms of, like, getting your actions connected with the feeling. So you`re -- you distance from yourself from a feeling of what`s happening.
So this whole thing is basically B.S. And it`s a way to get out of what she did. She knows exactly what she did. It was premeditated. And there was no way out of that, I don`t care if you call it domestic violence or anything else.
GRACE: Susan Constantine, body language expert, I`d like to hear your opinion of what you`re seeing in court.
When I get her satellite up, let me know, Dana.
Also another question has reared its ugly head. And that is when testimony came out through her own psychologist that she had kicked and hit her mother, we saw on videotape, I saw it anyway. If you could pull that up, Dana. Where she mouths the words, I didn`t hit my mom. Now correct me if I`m wrong, Jean Casarez, but didn`t she tell her psychologist that?
Oh, hold on. I think we`re going to play it.
CASAREZ: Yes, she sure did.
GRACE: Let`s hear the sound. Oh, no sound. OK. Take a look. Take a look. I never hit my mom. What about it, Jean?
CASAREZ: The prosecutor was brilliant, Nancy, because he is the one that brought this out. Dr. Samuels said, yes, she hit her mother during her junior high school years and then kicked her mother when her mother came in April 2008 to help her go back to Yreka. But the witness then said but you can`t take that into consideration for post-traumatic stress disorder. It`s only after the event. Oh, the prosecutor said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You ended up with somebody by the name of Ryan Burns, right?
MARTINEZ: And you ended up in his bed, right?
ARIAS: I think it was a love sack.
RYAN BURNS, WITNESS: At the time we started kissing, it got a little more escalated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had a boyfriend in another country, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now what was that boyfriend`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you love Matt?
ARIAS: Very much. Yes, I was in love with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You fell in love with Daryl?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you know her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know Jodi because we were in love.
MARTINEZ: And that was OK, right?
ARIAS: I`m single. We were boyfriend and girlfriend we were in committed monogamous relationships.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were in love with Bobby.
ARIAS: Yes. Very much. A lot more than it was Victor. Bobby was like my first true love.
BURNS: When we woke up, we were kissing and then she eventually kind of grabbed me and then she got on top of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are taking your calls straight out to Shawn Michelle in California. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
SHAWN MICHELLE, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi. How you doing, Nancy?
SHAWN MICHELLE: Good. My question is the only thing that`s been hurt -- well, it is a comment and a question. To me, the only thing that`s been hurt on her is her private areas because it seems to me that`s what she used a lot. And then my second thing is that for a person like her height and, you know, her weight, it seems to me like somebody had to help her.
I mean, for everything that you described, the crime scene and what it looked like and what I`ve seen, to me, there`s no way that she could have did that by herself.
GRACE: Interesting question. Out to you, Jean Casarez. This is an issue that the prosecution will have to address.
CASAREZ: Nancy, what was the viewer saying? Can you repeat that?
GRACE: That she didn`t think that Travis could have been killed by Arias alone.
CASAREZ: It is a single perpetrator theory, although I believe in the jury instruction of the charge it may mention two people but the prosecutor`s theory is she did it alone.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Specialist Bradley Rappuhn, 24, Grand Ledge, Michigan. Purple Heart, Bronze Star, Meritorious Service Medal. Parents Gary and Roxanne, stepmother Deborah, brother Brent, stepbrother, Tyler, stepsister, Ashley.
Bradley Rappuhn, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: It`s obvious who was there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. It`s obvious that you committed a crime, that you hurt Travis. I know, I know that you did this and you refuse to tell me why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. Much in the footage that you are seeing is jury will never see. Her antics during police interrogation. The fact that she slashed his and his girlfriend`s tires, showed up unannounced. Stalked him, followed him, broke into his e-mail, his checking account. They`ll never ever know. It seems wrong to me that we know evidence that the jury will never know.
Out to you, Jean Casarez, there is so much the jury will never find out. It doesn`t seem right to me.
CASAREZ: And you know, Nancy, when I found out that hours before she was arrested a rental car was packed up with a 9 millimeter gun inside, ammunition in her suitcase and a knife in a box of books, all set to leave, I`m just really surprised that consciousness of guilt does not allow that for the jury to hear this as evidence.
GRACE: You know, Jean, you and Beth and I, Alexis, too, all of us are lawyers, and lawyers on the panel, Kelly, Peter, Shelli, a lot of us have stood back and wondered sometimes what`s wrong with the system. And this is definitely one of those days when the tail wags the dog again, court canceled today because Arias once again claims to have a headache.
Everyone, tonight a special good night from Colorado friends, Angelique and Aliyah.
Aren`t they beautiful?
And tonight to those of you that have been observing Passover, (INAUDIBLE). And for those of you like myself entering Holy Week, blessings to you as we approach Good Friday and Easter.
"DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.