Final Arias Defense Witness Begins
Aired March 25, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) arguments, no anger issues that I can remember. Oh, I kicked a dog once.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she once told me that she was having difficulty reading because she couldn`t focus and concentrate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know that she said that she read the book of Mormon from cover to back?
ARIAS: I did read the book of Mormon thoroughly. Following that meeting, I attempted to read one chapter a day. And so I finished it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But based on my clinical judgment and my expertise and experience, she met that criteria.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you can bang on it all you want, and it`s still your judgment, isn`t it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Of course it`s my judgment.
ARIAS: I haven`t found the guy, the man that I want to marry, the person I want to spend my life with. But in my mind, Travis did, and I was happy (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, so just because she was lying, it`s OK to sort of smile at the lie? Is that what`s going on here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She created an alternative universe that she responded to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With regard to this alternative universe that you`re talking about, it`s nothing more than a lie, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were probably standing above him when he was in the shower and shot him in the head (INAUDIBLE) knife and you stabbed him several times.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that she discussed, thoughts, feelings, conversations associations with the trauma in the "48 Hours" interview.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So again, that speaks against what`s in number one, doesn`t it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry, I don`t see it that way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, you wouldn`t see that that way because you have feelings for the defendant, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I beg your pardon, sir!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, the courtroom blows up as prosecutor Martinez goes a final round with Arias`s star shrink, psychologist Dick Samuels after the shrink is caught on tape in stunning inconsistencies.
This as we dig up never-before-seen video of Arias with police. And as soon as they take a break in the courtroom, I`m going play that for you. As we go to air, we learn Arias hit, kicked and berated her own mother before stabbing, slashing lover Travis Alexander to death.
Testimony is still going strong right now. They`re coming out of that sidebar. Let`s go back in the courtroom, Dana.
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Probably -- I think I worked for the probation department on and off for about a decade, doing training for probation officers and people in camps for working with domestic violence.
GRACE: For those of you just joining us, this is the final witness, we think, for the state. This is Alyce LaViolette. She is yet another shrink. Let`s listen.
LAVIOLETTE: No, no. They paid me to do that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, OK.
LAVIOLETTE: They paid me to do training. I mean, I volunteered time, you know, talking with the probation department. But when I trained their officers, that was actually a paid position.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what did they pay you to do? You said train their officers. Train them to do what?
LAVIOLETTE: Train them to identify and work with people who were arrested for domestic violence.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what about -- and then with your volunteer work, you did -- did you do trainings with your volunteer work?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I continued to do training. I do training for shelters. I`ve -- actually, I`ve done training for lots of people who requested it. I continue and have done training for churches. A number of churches have had issues where they`ve talked about domestic violence in their congregations, and they need to have some way to deal with that, or to deal with anger, so I`ve done that.
I do training. Most of the volunteer work I do now is training, although I`m on the alumni board at Cal State Long Beach, and so...
GRACE: OK, I don`t want to interrupt this testimony, but I do want to tell you that Alyce LaViolette is allegedly the defense star witness. They`ve been working up to her. This is common trial strategy, to save the best for last. Let`s see what`s going to happen.
LAVIOLETTE: ... peer-reviewed journal, and I do peer reviews and that`s volunteer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What peer-reviewed journal is that?
LAVIOLETTE: "Journal of Child Custody."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Do you ever work in child custody issues?
LAVIOLETTE: I do. I consult, usually, with people in their child custody issues. I have come in and done expert witness or consulting with child custody evaluators or with attorneys in domestic violence cases and counseled battered women generally. And occasionally also, I`ve worked with fathers who are going through domestic violence issues and working with them.
GRACE: I want to hear how much she`s getting paid. That`s what I want to hear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that you do with churches in different areas. What kind of training is it? Is it all different kinds of training, or what are you training people to do?
LAVIOLETTE: It depends on the group. When I do training at churches, a lot of times, it`s to explain why battered women stay. It`s to look at gender issues with domestic violence. Sometimes there are counselors out of the churches that want training on doing anger management. There are several groups, church groups, where they had a big congregation and they had people that wanted to be peer-trained to do anger management groups. So I`ve done that.
It really depends on the group and what they want. I`ve worked in almost every area of domestic violence. I did training on teen dating violence, and that was volunteer, in the high schools. And I`ve spoken in the high schools in California, around in Long Beach and different areas, and done that as a volunteer. And that would be coming out and talking to kids and talking to kids about dating violence, teen dating violence and what that looks like, and resources that they might have and that kind of thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And besides training, do you do speaking engagements?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of speaking engagements...
GRACE: OK, I just got to say at first blush, she seems to be much more likable than the last defense witness, Dick Samuels. But remember, she`s talking about her speeches right now. I wonder if she`s going to mention her speech, Was Snow White a battered woman?
LAVIOLETTE: I`ve keynoted for -- well, I keynote for the fatherhood - - I`ve keynoted for -- or done workshops at the fatherhood conference on a parenting curriculum that I helped develop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s the fatherhood conference?
LAVIOLETTE: The fatherhood conference is put on by Children`s Institute International, and Herschel Swinger (ph), who has passed away, was the founder of that conference. And it`s really to encourage fathers to be the best fathers they can be, and for at-risk dads, fathers who`ve grown up in gangs, or fathers who have -- you know, have not been the best fathers to really improve their fathering. And there are a lot of men who are very interested in that and come to those conferences.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And besides that speaking engagement, have you been asked to speak outside the United States?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I`ve spoken in a number of countries. I`ve spoken in Japan, Israel, New Zealand, Ireland, Canada. And then I`ve done some work for the state department of the United States. And those are video conferences. I just did one in Kathmandu, Nepal. I didn`t go to Kathmandu, but I did a video conference there. And Cape Verde in Africa and in Tel Aviv.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And these speaking engagements, what is it that you`re asked to speak about, generally speaking?
LAVIOLETTE: I`m asked to speak about setting up domestic violence legislation, community organizing around development of battered women`s shelters and programs that are more holistic, that address the entire family. For the most part, that said, they`re countries where people are just developing things, although Israel is quite sophisticated. And when I go to these countries, I sometimes speak to the governmental groups on the creation of laws because I have done some work on legislation, as well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the what?
LAVIOLETTE: On legislation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, legislation. OK. And you said...
GRACE: What? OK. We`re hearing an objection is being made.
Very quickly, while they`re hearing that objection, Dana, do you believe she`s going to mention Brenda Clubine (ph), one of LaViolette`s previous client? She served 26 years for murdering her husband. She tried to say that Brenda Clubine was a victim of domestic violence. Also, she represented Judge John Harris (ph) with misconduct charges, inviting female attorneys to lunch, commenting on court officials` anatomy. I can only imagine what that was. These are two of her previous clients. I wonder if that`s going to come up.
OK, they`re starting -- they`re resuming. Let`s go live, Dana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve done work with the Department of State?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And for the U.S. government?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it that you do?
LAVIOLETTE: Those are the video conferences that I`ve done. I was also -- I was asked to go to Sri Lanka and Maldives, and I was asked to go to Africa, but there was a very limited window of time, and I couldn`t fit it into my schedule. And so I wasn`t able to actually travel, so the video conferences were set up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So when you`re speaking to these other countries, is it the U.S. government that is asking you to speak to them?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that what you mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
LAVIOLETTE: Through the State Department and the embassies.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. OK. And how long has that been going on? Has that been going on through different presidencies?
LAVIOLETTE: During George Bush`s presidency and Barack Obama`s presidency.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What...
GRACE: OK, there`s a quick pause. Very quickly out to you, Jean Casarez and Beth Karas, both standing by at the courthouse.
Everybody, we are live and taking your calls. We`re hearing an objection right now. Of course, we don`t know what they`re saying.
Very quickly, Jean Casarez, they`re bringing on Alyce LaViolette, which we think is going to be, what, the icing on the cake? Is she the final witness? Have they tried to save the best for last Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": We think she`s the final witness. And I`ll tell you why -- what makes her different, Nancy, is she is a pioneer in southern California and the West Coast area for domestic violence, facilitating programs for battered women. She`s worked with the district attorney`s office, the Office of Children and Families, so she`s normally on the side of the prosecution, not the defense.
GRACE: Really? Because here she`s represented Brenda Clubine, who served 26 years for murdering her husband...
GRACE: ... and Judge John Harris, who obviously commented on a female`s either her breast or her behind or -- you know, I`m going to leave it at that, but on the female anatomy, is what I`m understanding. So that certainly wouldn`t be for the prosecution.
But you know what, Jean? They`ve got to do something to try and pump some air into the life of this defense case because, you know, Dick Samuels -- that was a huge disaster of biblical proportions. That was bad.
CASAREZ: And it didn`t have to happen. It just didn`t have to happen. If he`d been prepared, it didn`t have to happen. But LaViolette since 1978, she did what, Nancy, you did. She volunteered at battered women`s hot line, and that is what precipitated her career in this area.
GRACE: Wow. OK, so that`s what got her started. All right, Beth Karas, Jean and I are talking about Alyce LaViolette. I wonder if she`s going to bring up the other people that she has, let me just say, testified on their behalf, such as Brenda Clubine, who murdered her husband. They`ve got to do something, though. They`ve got to do something to make up for what happened with Dick Samuels.
BETH SAMUELS, "IN SESSION": Right. Now here, looking at the big picture, this is what LaViolette needs to do. She needs to describe for the jury why Jodi Arias was justified in attacking Travis Alexander and believing that he was about to kill her. So she`s got to -- I mean, she`s got to put that all in context.
And while Jodi Arias doesn`t remember slaughtering Travis Alexander, she doesn`t deny it, either, right? She admits she did it, but she can`t give details. So I think LaViolette may also explain what this overkill is like with women who have been abused. I think that`s what she`s going to do. We`ll see if she delivers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I think I have a really excellent memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dissociative amnesia. Cannot retrieve memories for that period of time.
ARIAS: I think that I have a good memory.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would be a very severe trauma, some severe incident.
ARIAS: June 4th is an anomaly for me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could be killing.
ARIAS: I don`t think I have memory issues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She suffers from dissociative amnesia.
ARIAS: I can`t really explain why my mind did what it did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bits and pieces of memory can be retrieved.
ARIAS: ... why I blacked out or have memory gaps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was threatening her life.
ARIAS: You can imagine a computer that freezes. It`s turned on but it`s not functioning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t really control them. They just pop up.
ARIAS: I don`t know how the mind works necessarily, but I know that that was the most traumatic experience of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. We are live and taking your calls, camped outside the courthouse. Testimony still ongoing. Because of the time difference, they`re still -- we`re still showing you testimony. Let`s go straight back in the courtroom, Dana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that you did some work with the LA county probation department. Have you done any further work with them?
LAVIOLETTE: Just -- just in terms of talking to probation officers about clients, but not -- I haven`t done training for them. I think -- I`m trying to remember the last time I keynoted the state probation conference, and that`s about the last time. I also did a speaking engagement for female probation officers that had a specialized group, and I did training for that group.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A specialized group of what?
LAVIOLETTE: Just female probation officers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh. Oh. Oh, I see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you ever -- did you ever help to create any programs with the county department, the probation department?
LAVIOLETTE: Did I create programs?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, so, like, design any type of domestic violence training?
LAVIOLETTE: Well, I -- yes, with -- in 1980, in California, we created a diversion law. And people were diverted from the system and sent to counseling. And so that was where I worked with the diversion officer and the supervisor of the adult probation department to develop the training for officers to be able to deal with the influx of new clients on this new issue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. What about awards? Have you ever received any awards in the area of domestic violence or -- or -- well, in that area?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I`ve received a number of awards. I`ve been very fortunate. I just received an award from the shelter that I worked at just this past year. It was called a Champion of Hope Award. I`ve received a lifetime achievement award. I`ve received proclamations from the county and the state. And I`ve received from the sur-optimist (ph) and other groups` awards.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You know, and we`ve been mentioning California a lot. Is that where you currently live?
LAVIOLETTE: I live in California. I`ve lived in California since I moved there in `67.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And were you originally from Arizona? You said you went to Glendale (ph) Community College to begin with?
LAVIOLETTE: I went -- I moved to...
GRACE: Everyone, we are bringing you unseen testimony, testimony still ongoing. Yes, this witness is going to be trouble for the state. She`s likable. She`s believable. She`s credible. Here`s the kicker. She`s basing her analysis on what Arias has told her.
We`ll be right back with more testimony. Please stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a psychologist, are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Perpetrators of horrible crimes develop post- traumatic stress disorder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a psychiatrist, are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That she did suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No training in assessing post-traumatic stress disorder?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Soldiers in Afghanistan report post-traumatic stress disorder...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No training in assessing the psychological effects that can befall a battered woman?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are live and camped outside the courthouse and bringing you ongoing testimony. You`re not missing a word of live testimony. While we are waiting to resume testimony in that Phoenix courthouse, we have had our entire staff, including me, combing through video, combing through documents, and we have uncovered what we believe to be as of yet unseen police interrogation of Jodi Arias.
Now, I`m going to play that for you because I want you to see it. As soon as we hear they`re resuming testimony, we`re going to go straight back in. Roll the police interrogation video, please, Dana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: Other than arguments, no anger issues that I can remember. Oh, I kicked a dog once. I was a freshman in high school. And I love, love, love animals. And once we had this dog. His name was Doggy Boy. And my parents, until this dog that they have now, have never been able to -- - and I don`t mean just them. We as a family have never been able to care for a dog properly as far as give it attention and take it for walks and be consistent.
So this dog stayed in the back yard a lot and he stayed tied up on -- you know, in the shade with plenty of, you know, leeway. At one point, though, he was untied. And I took the trash out and he -- and this is when my little brother and sister were still in diapers.
And he tore the -- it was the diaper trash, and he tore diapers all the over yard. And of course (INAUDIBLE) when diapers get wet, and they`re like jelly, spongy, weird stuff. And I just -- I got mad, and I just kicked him with my right foot, and he just moved a few feet. And he didn`t yelp or anything, but he just went -- he ran away and I never saw him again after that. And I mean, that`s probably an anger issue, I guess.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one time kicking a dog isn`t an anger issue.
ARIAS: It changed my world as far as animal treatment goes. I`ve never seen him since. And I need to apologize for that to him. I know it sounds weird. But my relationship with animals is kind of like they`re like people, too. They have souls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you need to do is you need to apologize to Travis. But you just refuse. And I can`t help you anymore if you`re not going to help yourself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She wants to apologize to a dog she kicked, but refuses to come clean about murdering her lover?
We are waiting to take you back into the courtroom for more testimony. Stay with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you become untied from the bed and what happened to the rope?
JODI ARIAS, DEFENDANT IN TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S MURDER: I was able to slip my wrists out of it. We took the rope from behind the head board and tossed it on the carpet for the time being.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You then slipped out of the rope, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that point the rope is still there, isn`t it?
ARIAS: I don`t remember if we left it there or if he pulled it out on the rest of the rope.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, where is the rest of the rope?
ARIAS: Either in the bedroom or bathroom, I can`t hurt him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you don`t know where he left the other rope, right?
ARIAS: Not offhand. The part that was not used went on the floor to start with. I think it was thrown aside somewhere, I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the rope he tied you up with?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where your hands were, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And this is where the rope was, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you take that with you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember what you did with that?
ARIAS: Eventually it went into a dumpster.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It isn`t there, is it?
ARIAS: Not anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you keep saying not anymore, it isn`t there, is it?
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody. We are live and camped outside the phoenix courthouse right now, more as of now unseen testimony, let`s go into the courtroom, Dana.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And so when you`re helping -- when you`re talking about helping to develop different probation trainings and thing like that, that`s why we`re talking about Los Angeles county?
ALYCE LAVIOLETTE, AUTHOR: Yes, and the state of California.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the state of California, OK. Do you have any published works? Have you published anything in this area?
LAVIOLETTE: I have a book called "it could happen to anyone, why battered women stay." It`s coming out in the third edition in April. I have articles that I`ve written for the journal of child custody. For the -- I have a chapter in a book called domestic violence offenders.
GRACE: OK, call me crazy, but did I just hear a book plug, ouch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it that you`re writing about?
LAVIOLETTE: It`s a view from the trenches. It`s sort of a 20, 25 year retrospective, I can`t remember, but it was 2002, I think it came out, and it was a retrospective on battered intervention programs and what we currently know and what we knew, and some of the things we look at to measure success in programs and some of the things we want to have happen in those programs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And the book you said you wrote about what battered women stay?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that what it`s about?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes. It is about why battered woman stay.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And when did you write that, do you remember?
LAVIOLETTE: The first edition was in 1993, and it became a best seller for stage publications, they asked for a second edition which we wrote in 2000. And then they asked us to write a third edition. And my co-author and I are old enough that we don`t think a fourth is going to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, With regard to the particular book, how do you sit down to write a book like that? Is it based on research, what do you do to have that information available to you?
LAVIOLETTE: My coauthor is a researcher. I was not a researcher. And my co-author would bring me piles of research, basically, piles of articles, and I would have to read them and write them up in a way that could be understood. We used case studies in the book.
We made the book something that we hoped that folks could read who were victims and perpetrators of domestic violence as well, but also just people who were interested, it`s used as a textbook in a number of universities back east. I was just last -- a couple years ago speaking in Hawaii, and somebody from a small island near Sri Lanka came up to me and said they use the book there. So, I have no idea who all`s using it. But we feel pretty good about it because people have liked it. And we`ve also -- we`ve had attorneys who have used it in their cases.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
GRACE: Very quickly, there is a pause. Unleash the lawyers, Dwayne Cates, defense attorney at Phoenix courthouse, Regina Tsombanakis, defense attorney joining me out of Miami.
Dwayne Cates, this is highly unusual. This extended, extended discussion of credentials. It`s going on a tiny bit too long.
DWAYNE CATES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think so. I think they need to come out and they need -- this is their last hope, Nancy. This is the last witness they have got and they have got to give if everything they`ve got. They have got somebody`s life on the line, and they need to bring out every good work she has done.
GRACE: All right. What about it, Regina?
REGINA TSOMBANAKIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. Because this woman lends credibility to the fact that she`s testifying that Jodi Arias is a battered woman. She`s got to know, look all the stuffs she`s done. She has written books, she has done this, she has done that, who wouldn`t know if she didn`t know. So, she is a great witness for the defense to end on because she brings a lot more to the table and may be able to explain some of the behaviors that the other --.
GRACE: You know, Regina, I really do appreciate that, but she is also defended convicted murders by claiming they, too, were battered women. Having represented battered women for many, many years, over ten years, it`s disturbing to me when someone claims battered women defense, it hurts future battered women that are legitimately using that defense.
In this case, I don`t think - even though you are, both of you, veteran defense attorneys, can say with a straight face that this is a genuine battered women syndrome defense, what about it, Cates?
CATES: This is a genuine battered women`s defense. And you are going to hear about it from this witness. She is going to explain exactly what it is.
GRACE: I already know what it is.
CATES: Why didn`t she just leave? But, that`s the question they ask. Every battered woman, why don`t they leave? Why do they go back?
GRACE: That`s not the question I`m asking.
Dwayne, I appreciate that. But being very familiar with the battered women syndrome defense, I`m not asking why didn`t she leave. I`m saying that I don`t see anything in the facts or evidence to substantiate one thing that Jodi Arias has said.
Let me go you, Jean Casarez and Beth Karas. Also with me, Alexis and Matt Zarrell.
Jean Casarez, is there one shred of evidence? One person that has testified that they saw bruises that she confided in them that she was a battered woman? One hospital report? One police report? Anything? Did she ever go to the hospital?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: That`s an easy question, Nancy. The answer is, no. Across the board, absolutely no.
GRACE: So, Beth Karas, there`s not one thing to substantiate claims that Travis Alexander beat her.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, IN SESSION: No. And you know, Nancy, the abuse, if it exists at all seems to be more emotional or psychological, name calling and things like that. But, --
GRACE: But, wait --
KARAS: That`s not a reason to be in fear of your life.
GRACE: Beth, are you telling me he got all screamy and got all shouty and he got all fussy? Is that what you`re saying?
KARAS: Yes, but even if that were true, and I don`t know that it is, but the defense is looking for evidence of that, if that were true, does that mean she was reasonable in fearing imminent death at the hands of this man for words? I mean, really? She says he lunged, and he said I`m going to kill you.
GRACE: You`re right. You`re right. Beth, you and Jean are absolutely right. So, Matt Zarrell, you have combed over the trial record. What have you found? As a matter of fact, I think that the state is going to bring on Matt McCartney to say Arias told a pack of lies on direct examination.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via phone): Well, Nancy, you`re right that McCartney is the only person that Arias has mentioned in any testimony that she suggests might know something. And the prosecutor, in response has suggested that McCartney may testify the other way.
The other thing I want to the point out, Nancy, is the big scene today was post-traumatic stress, as in post-trauma that the symptoms she suffered from were after the trauma. However, the state proved on follow up with Samuels that a lot of the symptoms that Samuel cite for the PSTD, she suffered from for years before she even met Travis Alexander.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD SAMUELS, PSYCHOLOGIST: If I knew someone was constantly lying to me, I would discontinue the evaluation.
JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You believed that she wasn`t tell you the truth initially, do you remember that?
SAMUELS: Yes, that`s correct.
MARTINEZ: You used it and then concluded that those spores on that (INAUDIBLE) confirmed the presence of PTSD even though you have just not told us that this is based on a lie.
SAMUELS: Perhaps I should have re-administered that test.
MARTINEZ: What the defendant told you is that this story about the strangers was fiction, correct?
SAMUELS: That`s correct.
MARTINEZ: And yet you did not administer another one, correct.
SAMUELS: That was an oversight and I should have done that.
MARTINEZ: She told you that she was tied at the ankles, didn`t she tell you that?
SAMUELS: That`s what I had in my notes.
MARTINEZ: There`s no reason to doubt your notes, all right?
SAMUELS: It conceivable that in my attempt to write down quickly as she was talking, I may have added that by mistake?
MARTINEZ: Why are you writing down untruths? This is base an lie.
SAMUELS: I was this error by not re-administering the PBS.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And that`s just a tiny taste between of the final round between Juan Martinez, the prosecutor in this case and the state`s star shrink, Dick Samuels. They`re trying to make hail Mary save by bringing on yet another type of shrink, a psychologist. Alyce LaViolette, we are about to take you right back into the courtroom for more testimony. But as we wait for testimony to resume, everybody, because of the time difference, we still have testimony to show you.
Right now, I want to show you something the jury may very well never see, and you can bet your bottom dollar the defense is on their knees tonight thanking God this isn`t going to come into evidence. But take a look at Jodi Arias, we have just uncovered this police interrogation tape. No one has seen this yet, we happened to find it as we were researching all of the evidence. Here she is being actually flirtatious with the police officer.
ARIAS: What kind of gun is that? Just curious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a glock.
ARIAS: I just bought a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They probably found it by now.
ARIAS: Probably. I was taking it somewhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did this?
ARIAS: I don`t know. But if I am -- if I go to trial for this and if I`m convicted for this whoever did this is going to be sitting very pretty somewhere glad that it wasn`t them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it`s my job to make sure that an innocent person does not go to jail. But I don`t see an innocent person sitting in front of me.
ARIAS: I haven`t found the guy, the man that I want to marry, the person I want to spend my life in, but in my mind, Travis did. And I was happy for him, and I thought there was also a part of me that felt, if I stay, I`m going to jeopardize that for him as well. We both deserved to be happy. We both deserved to have, you know, be married in the temple. And that`s where he wanted to go.
So, I mean, I didn`t know she didn`t feel that way, I have never spoken to her except at church when I came to Arizona, it was really brief. And it was the bishop who told me that, you know, she essentially turned him down. And the last few -- I mean, now that I think about it, he was really, just, you know, in his attitude and stuff. And I just thought that was just beginning to distance ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know you have a .25 auto. You reported it stolen. Recovered the ammunition and it matches. We recovered a shell casing, it matches the ammunition. Your prints, your blood, your hair, the motive. You were there.
ARIAS: I wasn`t jealous of anything. I was a little bit envious he was going to Cancun, but that wasn`t the reason. Like I could go to Cancun, it`s not expensive to go to Mexico.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know. You were probably standing above him when he was in the shower and you shot him in the head.
ARIAS: I was kneeling down beside him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi, and then you had a knife, and you stabbed him several times. Yes, you did. Jodi?
ARIAS: What about a lie detector test?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can do that, that`s fine.
ARIAS: Would that help me at all?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, how can`t use them in court.
ARIAS: Well, then there`s no point.
GRACE: Let`s go back into the courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you do forensic work as well?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I started doing forensic work in 1984. I was asked by an attorney to explain why a battered woman would kill, and why she stayed. My first trial in 1984 was a domestic violence homicide trial. And at that time the battered woman`s testimony was not considered. It was, it really wasn`t well-thought-of or well respected. And so I didn`t testify in that case. I consulted in that case. But I, I know that I didn`t even know that this was a job. I thought it was a volunteer position. And when she asked me to do it, I said certainly, I would be happy to do it. And I said I`m assuming it`s a volunteer position. And she said no, you get paid to do it and so I was surprised.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And since that time, do you know about how many cases you`ve worked on forensically?
LAVIOLETTE: I`ve worked on about 60 cases forensically. I don`t do a lot of forensic work. I do usually about two cases, sometimes three cases in a year, depending on whether I`m consulting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why don`t you do a lot of forensic work?
LAVIOLETTE: Because it`s very difficult for me, sometimes, to watch the process.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection. Irrelevance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have your own practice as well?
LAVIOLETTE: My private practice?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So besides coming here to testify, do you have a private practice that you`re running?
LAVIOLETTE: I hope so, when I get back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What types of cases, the forensic, we`re talking about the forensic cases that you`ve worked on, what types of cases have you worked on?
LAVIOLETTE: I have worked on homicide cases. I have worked on stalking case, a kidnapping case. I have worked on child custody cases. Most of the cases I`ve done currently are child custody cases.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And let me stop you there. When you talk about child custody cases, is that a criminal case?
LAVIOLETTE: No, it`s not. It`s a family law case. So family law cases, I`ve done two civil cases, one federal case, one post conviction case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And of the criminal law cases that you have done, about who retains you? Do you have a, do you have an idea who you work for more often? The defense or the prosecution?
LAVIOLETTE: I`ve worked for the defense about 16 times, 15 times, something like that. I`ve worked for the prosecution about nine times. And I have done some prosecution work that I don`t even think I have on my CV where I have just consulted with the DA`s office. I have done three consultations for the district attorney in Los Angeles county and I`ve just volunteered. I have done that. And I do volunteer mock trial for the district attorney so they can practice with an expert witness. And I do that, I`ve done that twice now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So you help the prosecutors in California get experience at cross examining an expert like yourself?
LAVIOLETTE: Yes, I do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And do you have a particular criteria that you use before you will decide to accept a case?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, irrelevance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Approach.
GRACE: We remember American hero Navy seal Collin Thomas, 33, Morehead, Kentucky, Purple Hearts, Silver star, three bronze stars, parents Clay and Jim, sister Megan.
Collin Thomas, American hero.
With me at the courthouse, a friend of Travis`, knows Arias, Julie Christopher.
Julie, thank you for be being with us. I understand that you believe calling this domestic violence expert is like adding another lie.
JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Yes, ma`am. And, you know, what I`m picking up on is there`s the violence happening in, like in the lineage of Jodi`s family, that all women are connected to this charge of anger issues that I`m getting and violence. So it`s, it`s, you know, the victim here, Ms. Nancy Grace, is Travis. You know. Travis is the victim here.
GRACE: I think you`re right.
To Doctor Janet Taylor, psychiatrist.
Doctor Janet, do you believe this is a battered women`s syndrome offense?
DOCTOR JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: I honestly don`t believe it`s a battered women defense. In fact, all the evidence points to Jodi being the batter. I mean, she`s kicked her dog, she`s kicked her mother. Certainly, she has some trauma that was pre-existing. But, I don`t think that this is a battered women`s defense.
GRACE: And of course, the jury will never know that.
Everyone, the judge recessed the courtroom. Testimony is over for the day. Dr. Drew up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern.
And until then, good night, friend.