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Jodi Arias on Cross for Third Day
Aired February 27, 2013 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: She was standing over Travis, near him (ph), and he was -- the guy with the gun was standing near me. He pulled the trigger and nothing happened.
Can`t keep my stories straight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not true.
ARIAS: Neither of them.
I was hyperventilating and my heart was racing.
It`s all the same thing. It`s just different versions.
Couldn`t keep my lies straight.
I started to pull on him and I said, Come on, come on, come one, let`s go, let`s go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you lie to the detective, yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "48 Hours"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People in Utah?
ARIAS: Yes, everyone.
TRAVIS ALEXANDER, VICTIM: (INAUDIBLE) (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes or no?
ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
ARIAS: My panties were missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I want to lick it up and then sit on it. You are so tasty. My goodness."
"I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a dirty, horny little school girl," right?
(INAUDIBLE) horny toad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Hey, hottie biscotti."
ARIAS: I called a lot of people that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was square (ph). Couldn`t you see that?
ARIAS: I`m nearsighted.
I want to know what you`re talking about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m asking you.
ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) yes or no question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a yes or no question, isn`t it.
ARIAS: And I answered no three times, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you also added something three times, didn`t you.
ARIAS: Yes, the truth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a prognosticator of the future, are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I asking you right now if you`re telling the truth.
ARIAS: I don`t know. Are you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Day after day, Arias on the stand dragging murder victim Travis Alexander through the mud. But then the defense emerges. Arias claims, after she stabs him 29 times, holding his head back, slashing him ear to ear, to the chest, the heart, the back, leaving him dead in the shower stall -- she tells the jury she can`t remember a thing.
In the last hours, more cross-exam turns ferocious fight between Arias and the prosecution. On direct with her lawyers, she remembers everything. She`s poised, then goes into a crying jag, recalling minute details dating back years. But on cross, she recalls practically nothing.
Bombshell tonight. The prosecution gets down to the nitty-gritty, and I mean gritty, using Arias`s own words in XXX-rated text messages, firing them all right back at her as she sits on the stand.
We are live and camped outside that Phoenix courthouse. Let`s go straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, using her own words against her -- how did it go down?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, the theme of today, premeditation, Nancy, using her own words against her involving this gun. Remember, she testified on direct that she found a gun in the closet of Travis`s, but it was shown today through an audio recording that she made to Detective Flores one day after the body of Travis was found, when asked, she said, Travis didn`t own a gun. No, he wasn`t into that. He never owned a gun.
And now the knife, the knife. She gives a reason why a knife was in the bedroom, saying that Travis stretched out this cord all the way into the bathroom and he cut it so he could tie her up. Thus, a knife must have been left in the bathroom.
GRACE: Liz, pull me up that sound of Jodi Arias when she is in her interview with Detective Flores and she is asked about the gun and she says, No, not to my knowledge, he didn`t have a gun.
OK, Jean, so the prosecution is focusing in on the gun and premeditation, the point being that when she left town with that gun, she planned to use it on Travis Alexander.
CASAREZ: Right because her grandparents` home was burglarized with the same caliber of gun missing as was used to shoot Travis. As you say, Nancy, no coincidence in criminal law.
GRACE: Out to you, Christina Estes, reporter and anchor, KTAR. Christina, weigh in.
CHRISTINA ESTES, KTAR (via telephone): Well, Jean mentioned the theme today, premeditation, also sex, texts and lies. We`ve heard Jodi`s lies in the past. We`re hearing them in excruciating detail today, from the recorded phone call, where the prosecutor was able to say, Here`s what you said and here`s what you`re testifying to, the text messages that we`ve heard before, and also pulled up past interviews she`s done with the media and with, again, Detective Flores, saying, This was a lie. Are you telling a truth now? This was a lie...
GRACE: Exactly -- Christina, exactly why defense attorneys always say, Don`t speak. In fact, I`ve seen defense attorneys handing out their business cards in the courthouse, and on the back, they`ve got Miranda. And they`ve got, You have the right to remain silent. This means don`t talk to police ever, in bright red!
All right, listen to what she said to Flores.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But then I don`t understand why, why you -- why you took a gun with you.
ARIAS: Oh, I didn`t.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s that come from, then? Where did you get it? Everybody says he didn`t have one. Where did you get it, if you didn`t take it? Did he have one in the house?
ARIAS: Not to my knowledge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: There you see her speaking, directly contradicting what she is telling this jury.
Back to you, Jean Casarez. The X-rated text messages -- you know, I`ve heard them so many times, I`m numb. I`m not even shocked anymore, all right? And I`m sure the jury is feeling the same way.
What is the point of playing these messages and firing them right back at her on the stand?
CASAREZ: Because it shows that she was the initiator in much of this, that she was the aggressor, that she was the one that loved this and asked him to do certain things sexually. So she`s not a victim under the control and power of Travis Alexander when it comes to the sexual episodes.
GRACE: Out to you, Matt Zarrell. We have been poring over and over the particular text messages that the prosecution has used against her today. Explain what you think is the significance.
MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, there are two specific text messages, Nancy, I want to highlight, both from February 25th, 2008, just a few months before Travis`s death, where in the first one, Arias suggests that Travis spank her, suggesting she is the one who wants him to physically hit her. Then there`s a text message, also the same day, where Arias brings up having sex with Travis while she`s dressed up like a school girl.
Now, again, Arias is the one who is always saying Travis had control over their sexual relationship and was the one who suggested the school girl, but here it`s Arias who is the one who brings it up after Travis sends a photo of his genitals.
GRACE: You know, Matt, I`ve known you a long time, and to hear this all just spilling off your tongue just seems wrong. But I guess we`re all in the same boat together, so we might as well all start rowing because we`re going to have to say these text messages over and over and over again. I think you`re right, Matt, because you and Jean are saying the same thing.
All along -- you know what? Unleash the lawyers. Monica Lindstrom joining me, defense attorney right there in Phoenix. Also with us, veteran defense attorney Peter Odom of the Atlanta jurisdiction.
Peter, don`t you just hate it when you try to claim battered women`s syndrome, self-defense, and throughout, you know, weeks on the stand on direct, your client talks about how she was forced to do this and forced to do that. He made me have anal sex. I didn`t want to do this. He did this to me while I was sleeping, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And then on cross, the prosecution opens it up and fires those text messages back at her, where she says of her own volition that this is her idea, that she`s loving it, that these are their mutual fantasies. There goes that defense!
PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, not at all, Nancy. She has been setting the agenda for this trial from the very beginning. The prosecution seems to have forgotten that this is a case about murder. Jodi Arias decided this was going to be a case about their sex life, and the prosecution has bought it hook, line and sinker, and their entire cross- examination has been about the sex life.
GRACE: Mr. Odom...
ODOM: How about a murder?
GRACE: ... could you address my question?
ODOM: Nancy, your question doesn`t make even any sense. You`re asking...
GRACE: So that would be a no. All right...
ODOM: ... how do you like it when that -- when the battered woman`s syndrome...
GRACE: Monica, let`s answer the question. Part of the self-defense was that, He beat me, he slapped me, he this, he that, he forced me to have anal sex, he forced me to perform oral sex, he had sex with me in my sleep. I didn`t know what was going on.
It goes on and on and on and on about all the sexual incidents that were forced on her, which was very integral, as a matter of fact, to what she told her psychologist. That`s part of her defense.
MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think the sex part has anything to do with it. I don`t think it has anything to do with her self- defense. She`s claiming that he pushed her down, he climbed on top of her, he choked her out, he kicked her, he broke her finger, he backhanded her. That`s what she is talking about when she`s saying self-defense. She hasn`t said that she was raped or that she was forced to have sex with him. She said she enjoyed it. So it`s not about the sex for her self-defense.
Her self-defense is based on the fact that he beat her, he pushed her down, he kicked her, and he broke her finger, not to mention just backhanding her in the car. So that`s what self-defense is based on, not the fact that she enjoys sex with him or she didn`t enjoy sex with him. That`s just an extra part of the story that the prosecution is loving to put out there right now to make it look like she`s also a bad person.
GRACE: Let`s go to someone that has been watching and listening to the testimony every day. Matt Zarrell, could you explain why the sex is part of her claim of the battered woman syndrome defense.
ZARRELL: OK, let me first establish this. The first day, the defense opening, they called Travis a sexual deviant. And they said that Travis was the one who had control, that he physically forced her into sexual acts that she did not want to do, and that is why she felt the need to self- defense, that she was being attacked by Travis and this was part of it, that the sex was all part of the control that Travis had over her.
GRACE: Exactly. And that is what we have been hearing. Excuse me, Monica, have you been in the courtroom every day?
LINDSTROM: Not every day, but I`ve been listening to it every day.
GRACE: OK. Thank you.
LINDSTROM: And I`ve been in the courtroom.
GRACE: No, no!
LINDSTROM: And what she`s focusing on...
GRACE: No, I just asked you...
LINDSTROM: ... are other physical attributes, not...
GRACE: ... have you been in the courtroom every day...
GRACE: ... because we have.
GRACE: We have been in the courtroom every day.
GRACE: Jean Casarez, isn`t her theory that he has been forcing deviant sex on her part of the whole claim that he controlled her, and that on the day of the killing, she was ready to snap, which is the battered woman`s syndrome defense, because she was conditioned after all these months of mistreatment? That is the battered woman`s syndrome defense, and that`s where the sex becomes very critical.
CASAREZ: Very critical because it`s the foundation of it all. They started off having sex and having him control her, they say, with this power and domination, and she became a victim right then. And thus the cycle began, and it escalated after she found him with pictures of little boys enjoying himself, and that`s when it became the cycle of violence.
GRACE: Exactly. And again, Jean, I think what many people don`t understand is there is a subtle but important difference between a straight-out self-defense case, where I pull a gun on you and you shoot me first, boom, you acted in self-defense, as opposed to self-defense engendered by a battered women syndrome, which is the woman claims that -- and I worked in a battered women`s center for about 10 years as a volunteer while I prosecuted during the day.
So what happens in that is the woman is beaten and mistreated over and over and over. It becomes a cycle. It is a syndrome. And there are reasons she stays in the home or in the relationship. And then at the time of the killing, it`s basically the culmination of many years of abuse. That`s what the battered women`s syndrome defense is, is it not, Jean?
CASAREZ: Yes, it is. And the jury is going to get an instruction, we will see -- the defense will want it -- that the state of mind of Jodi they must look at from someone who has been abused within that cycle of violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can also be fair to say that what people say during phone sex isn`t necessarily true. Wouldn`t you agree to that?
ARIAS: I would agree to that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you said in your phone sex conversation with Mr. Alexander, according to your own testimony, part of it was a lie, wasn`t it?
ARIAS: Yes, part of it was a lie.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, it was a lie, right? And so at least if we`re using this conversation as a point of reference, people, you and Mr. Alexander, but you specifically, you lied to him, right?
ARIAS: I did.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there was no harm in it because it was just a fantasy kind of conversation, wasn`t it.
ARIAS: Yes, it was just fantasy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, and -- so that if he says he wants to tie you up to a tree and stick it up your (EXPLETIVE DELETED), that could also be seen as fantasy, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That never happened, did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, when I told you this ain`t no tea party, I really meant it because we got to bleep that prosecutor out every other minute. But he is reading verbatim from her text messages, all right? That`s where all this is coming from.
Unleash the lawyers, please -- Monica Lindstrom, defense attorney, Phoenix, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. So as both of you well know, since you are criminal attorneys, rape is not about sex, all right? It is about violence. It is about control. And that is a critical factor in this case.
Now, you were telling me your theories on the battered women`s syndrome before we went to break. Now, Peter, it`s my understanding that neither you or Monica have ever actually personally handled a case that involved the battered women`s syndrome defense, is that correct?
GRACE: Ah. OK. Out to the lines.
ODOM: I`ve never used it -- and I`ve never used it and I`ve never had it used against me...
GRACE: Well, then I appreciate you...
ODOM: ... when I was a prosecutor.
GRACE: ... being honest about that. Out to Heather in Washington state. Hi, Heather. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, hi, Nancy. During the last four days, it`s been pretty much established Jodi`s a liar, even by her own admission. But being a liar doesn`t make you a murderer.
Now, I think she did it, but my question is, without a knife with prints or without the murder -- the gun, what do you think is the key piece of evidence or the key thing that will get a murder one conviction? My concern is she won`t get that.
GRACE: Heather in Washington state, you`re very astute. Let`s go back to Monica and Peter. And I`m going to bring in Leslie also in just a moment, too, on this. She`s right, Peter and Monica. We don`t have a murder weapon. We don`t have a knife. We don`t have a gun. That hurts.
Now, you don`t have to have it. And I would say the majority of the murder cases I prosecuted, I don`t believe I had a murder weapon, maybe 50/50. But in this case, Peter -- you were a prosecutor for many years before you became a defense attorney. What do you think? I think the nine stab wounds to the back -- that says it all to me. But what do you think is the strongest evidence for the state? I`m asking you for the strongest evidence for the state, Peter. Think! Think!
ODOM: The strongest evidence for the state, in my opinion, is the fact that she`s told three different stories.
GRACE: Yes. That`s a good one.
ODOM: That`s the hardest thing for them to get around. Everything...
ODOM: They can`t disprove anything else.
GRACE: No, I agree with you. I would rank that right up there. I would put that number two behind the nine stab wounds to the back. What about it, Monica?
LINDSTROM: Well, I think number one is the fact that she confessed. She straight up admitted to the fact that she killed him. A close second, I think, is the camera. The camera puts her there. The camera shows that she`s involved. The camera even takes some pictures that she didn`t want pictures taken of. So I think that that is essentially the smoking gun.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are dressed up in a certain fashion, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it also implies that or indicates that it`s you that`s the person that likes this sort of activity and looking like a horny little school girl, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although we heard previously some talk about braids and that it was only him that wanted that, it was a consensual, mutual relationship, sexually speaking, wasn`t it.
ARIAS: Yes, always.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the Arias courthouse, where it is getting hot, and even more so than yesterday, today the prosecution firing back Jodi Arias`s own text messages right back at her. And let me warn you it`s XXX.
We are taking your calls. Out to Mary in Pennsylvania. Hi, Mary. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you. I wish all lawyers could be like you, especially a lot of the defense attorneys.
GRACE: Thank you. I appreciate that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I get so mad that so many people are complaining that the prosecutor is dragging her cross-examination out, when that defense attorney took nine days to get nothing but nonsense and lies out of her. And it just infuriates me because it`s so important that he gets as much as he can, you know, to the people, or the jury.
GRACE: And your question is that -- your comment is you disagree with that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I just get so -- it`s more like a comment that I get so angry that...
GRACE: Well, let me tell you my observations on this, Mary in Pennsylvania, since you brought it up. And I think you`re right to bring it up because I`m hearing it everywhere I turn. Oh, the prosecutor is being so hard. You know what I have to say to that? Eh! Eh! Eh! Because do you remember what happened in tot mom, Casey Anthony? The state held back a lot of things they could have brought in, and look what happened.
This is the time -- too hard? I don`t think he`s being hard enough because what you are seeing on the stand is like she`s at, what, a knitting party, she`s at a quilting bee? No. That is not the Jodi Arias that Travis Alexander saw while she stabbed him to death. That is the truth, and that is what this jury must see.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said, "Oh, yes, I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a dirty, horny little school girl," right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the school girl issue here in this conversation is being brought up by you, not by him, right?
ARIAS: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, in fact, this issue about this schoolgirl that may have been presented as part of the conversation on May 10th of 2008, well, you were enjoying it, too, weren`t you?
ARIAS: I don`t think we said schoolgirl on the tape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pardon?
ARIAS: I don`t think I said schoolgirl on the tape, but, as far as that goes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You liked dressing up like a horny little schoolgirl for lack of a better term, right?
ARIAS: Well, I think I said on direct I didn`t have a schoolgirl outfit, but it was kind of -- that was the idea.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the courthouse bringing you the latest in the Arias trial. And don`t get me wrong, I don`t care if she dresses up like Abraham Lincoln and Betsy Ross, I don`t care, but the point that the prosecution is making here, out to you, Jean Casarez, is that she is trying to tell this jury that Travis Alexander is a sex deviant that beat and abused her sexually, and now we`re seeing evidence, her own text messages, that she was the one that came up with the dress-up scenarios -- not judging -- that she`s the one that introduced him to KY lubricant jelly. He had never even used that before. He started the masturbating with her. All of this came about with the advent of Jodi Arias in his life, and the whole point of this is the prosecution is showing if he will only connect those dots for the jury, you can`t leave it wide open, is that she is the one that introduced these practices to him. He is not the deviant in this scenario.
CASAREZ: No, exactly right. And she admitted on direct examination that it was consensual. But now the prosecutor is taking it one step farther. And you know something else that came in today? The character of Travis Alexander, that he was trying to follow his faith, that he was trying to be a good Mormon, and she was the one that kept steering him the wrong way.
GRACE: You know, Jean, we`ve heard so many conflicting stories, but even within her interviews with "48 Hours," her stories conflicted, didn`t they, Jean?
CASAREZ: Oh, big time. Big time. Nancy, we heard a third scenario today of what happened on June 4th in the bedroom and bathroom, and it`s very convoluted, but it involved the two people, and the details are amazing, and she had to say on the stand I couldn`t even get my own story straight.
GRACE: OK. Listen to this, Jean, this is part of what was played in the courtroom in front of that jury. You be the judge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: I`ll talk about this, and nobody knows this. The detectives know this because I`ve spoken with them.
Boy, this is really hard. I am trying to think if I want to say this or not.
I -- there`s a lot of evidence that places me at Travis` house the day he was -- not just the day he was killed, but the day -- you know, most of that week. And there is a reason for that. And that reason is that I did see Travis the day that he passed away, and a lot of things happened that day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Notice the pauses and the looking away as she`s trying to fabricate the story for "48 Hours."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: And I was told that I can`t speak about it or tell anyone about it. Because my family`s life was in danger over it. I was told that if I did, that they would all die, and that I would die. And that was kind of the end of the story.
There was an argument amongst some people, two individuals, that one wanted to take my life and one said, you know, that`s not why we came. At one point the guy with the gun sort of succumbed to her pressure. I think, because he was holding the gun at my forehead, and I was on the ground, on my knees, and was near the armoire of where he kept his TV in his bedroom, and Travis was in the bathroom. And she was standing over Travis, near him, and he was -- the guy with the gun was standing near me, and, again, this argument was going on back and forth.
And I just remember holding my head and closing my eyes, and then there was so much that went on that day, but the short of it is he pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Just a click. And I realized then that he probably, I don`t know if that means that he was out of bullets or, I don`t know what that means. I wasn`t that familiar with handguns. And so at that point I pushed past him and I ran downstairs. He didn`t make much of an effort to stop me. But I could almost swear that I heard someone following me down the stairs, and I ran out the front door and I got into my car and I drove and I left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That part of the story stayed the same, how she got in her car and drove away off into the desert.
Susan Constantine, you`re the body language expert/jury consultant. I`m not a professional in that, but I can look at somebody, and the wheels are turning. She`s trying to make up the story as she talks.
CONSTANTINE: Yes, and you can see that too by her pausing, her hesitation. She looks down, she is processing. She is trying to figure out where she is going to pull the next one up, and then when she pulls one up, then she looks up, and then she tries to deliver it, and then she`ll look up, right to left to kind of constructing and bringing some truth to it, mixing it together, but it`s her voice.
But the other thing I don`t see is fear. So when she is talking about an experience like that, that should be fearful when a gun is being pointed at her head, you would see these expressions of fear, and her voice also would show the same thing. So her words and her body language just don`t match up.
GRACE: You know, that`s interesting, about not showing fear. She recounts this moment when her beloved was murdered, and when she almost lost her life, but now listen to this story. She couldn`t keep her stories straight even within the same interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARIAS: He left the room for a minute, maybe a few minutes. And she was in the bathroom standing over Travis. And I charged her. I ran down that hall and I pushed her as hard as I could, and she fell over him, landed near the sink. There is two sinks in the master bath, and she landed near the left sink, near the -- kind of near the trash can, close to the windows. And I started to pull on him and I said, come on, come on. Come on, let`s go. Let`s go. And he just wasn`t -- sluggish, lethargic, and he just wasn`t getting up, and he wasn`t really saying much of anything. He was there and he was conscious and I could see that. He wasn`t saying much.
I was able to get him about half -- he was sort of not crawling but he was kind of moving and trying to stand up, and I was able to get him about halfway down the hall when she came back at me and we struggled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Dr. Leslie, I mean, this is another interview with "48 Hours," and her story completely changes. Now she is trying to save his life.
DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right. It`s completely incredible, and the most important point here is that in these interviews, and especially on the stand, she is smug, she is superior, she is sassing everybody. She is almost flirtatious. She shows no sign of trauma. She shows not one sign, behaviorally or emotionally, of having been an abused woman. There`s no trauma, there`s no fear, there is no true emotion of regret or fear.
I don`t believe a word she says except that she believes that she is very brilliant and that everybody else will believe her, and I think the jury will see that, see through it in a heartbeat.
GRACE: After weeks of seemingly irrelevant, innocuous testimony from Jodi Arias on the stand, finally, this week, we get to the day that Travis Alexander was slaughtered, slaughtered in his own shower. Her story begins to veer almost out of control. And what I mean by that is that she is starting to catch herself in one inconsistency after the next. That`s what happens when you talk too much.
Let me tell you this. Arias` lawyers better be worried about cross exam. They`ve taken a very big gamble putting her on the stand. I don`t believe it`s going to pay off for them.
We are live camped outside the courthouse. Now joining us Beth Karas, in addition to Jean Casarez. Beth, what do you think was the biggest land mine for Jodi Arias today on cross?
KARAS: Nancy, I wish you had been in the courtroom because you can appreciate a good cross-examination. He was backing her into corners all day. But one of the biggest points he made, and she caved, was that she actually bought a third gas can, after borrowing two from her ex-boyfriend. But before admitting she bought a third gas can, he said to her, why did you borrow gas cans from your ex-boyfriend? Why didn`t you just buy them? Well, they were too expensive and they weren`t in my budget. Ah, but it`s not true, is it? You did buy one. Yes, she caved immediately, and one of the receipts already in evidence shows a gas can that says 5g kero for kerosene or whatever. It`s a gas can. She says she brought it back. But then he took her through receipts -- that was in Salinas (ph), that`s where she bought it, down in Pasadena, where she had three gas purchases, all in a row within minutes of each other. One appears to be for the car on the debit card, and two were cash purchases, one for 9.5 gallons. That`s the two five-gallon gas cans that she borrowed from Darryl Brewer (ph), and then a little over two gallons in the third one.
She started backing off saying, no, those were two purchases for the car, which doesn`t make sense that she would put in several gallons and then another two gallons in the car ten minutes apart. And her car had a capacity of at least 12 gallons, so basically she had three gas cans. Two were full, one had at least two gallons of gas in it. She had a full -- basically had enough gas to fill her car if she ran out.
The state believes that she didn`t want to stop in Arizona to buy gas. She didn`t want any videos or pictures taken of her in Arizona, so she made sure she had a full tank in her trunk in these gas cans.
GRACE: Joining me right now is a friend and former co-worker of Travis Alexander`s, Julie Christopher. Also joining us at the courthouse.
Julie, thank you so much for being with us. You have used the word "stalk" when you refer to how Arias treated Travis Alexander. Explain.
JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S: All right. One instance, Arias was sitting next to me and watching an event, and a training session at our prepaid legal business, and she had her camera always with her. And I`m saying that`s when -- the before -- after the breakup. OK? So they broke up, and she is sitting next to me with her camera, and Travis came on stage to do a training, and she keeps on taking pictures, and she looks at me, she said, isn`t he amazing? Isn`t he amazing? He changed my life. He changed my life. I just love him so much, but that was after they broke up.
So that was a little -- that was very weird. And then there was another experience that I had with her when she came to me just before she went back to California, she started touching my hair and she is saying, oh, you know, what do you think, Julie, if I go back dark? I said, well, if I go back brunette? I said, OK, you should -- you look fine either way. And I thought that was curious. And she took a picture of her and me and she goes, that way we`ll look like twins. So that was a little weird. She was very weird person anyway from the beginning.
However, like zombie like. And then I said, well, how are things going with Travis? She said, well, we broke up. And I said, oh, really. She said, yes, I`m so upset. I`m moving back to California, and I`m going back to live with my grandparents, because I love him and I can`t stand being around him just being his girlfriend, but I saw this girl always talking of Travis with her camera. She was always kind of a ghost and a shadow, always kind of there but out of body. It was very weird. Her energy was very evil like and just channeling that dark, that dark energy. And I think everybody can approve to that, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, what are your suspicions regarding her past involvement with witchcraft as it relates to the way she treated Travis?
CHRISTOPHER: In my experience, knowing Travis, Travis was loving life. Travis was an amazing being, a kid (ph) character, and I think that she was involved with witchcraft, and I think it showed up somewhere around the trial. And I believe in those sort of sect (ph) things, what happened is some people are involved with sexual things, activities, and it`s almost, to me, that she put a spell on Travis. And so this is -- when you engage in something sexual with somebody, it`s very powerful. There`s an energy that happens, and you can very easily manipulate someone. And in my humble opinion, I really think that Travis was under a spell, and I think she is trying -- thank you.
GRACE: Back to Julie Christopher, friend and former co-worker of murder victim Travis Alexander. Julie, you were abruptly cut off, right before we went to break. And I wanted to ask you about the last time that you saw Travis. What happened?
CHRISTOPHER: We having dinner. Jodi is next to me on the right. Travis is across from me. And having dinner, just normal people. And all of a sudden I have this energy, that cold rush through my body, and mind you, that`s what I do for a living, I read people. So I really feel that in my body that I have to really pay attention here. I wasn`t sure if it was coming from Jodi or it was for Travis. However -- it was for Travis. So I tell Travis, Travis, honey, let`s go into the ladies` room so we have some privacy. I`ve got a message for because I`m an intuitive. And he knows that about me. So we get together and I hold his hand. And I said we close the eyes, and I said, you know, Travis, there`s a really dark cloud around you. It`s kind of scary. Make sure you watch your back.
And I said, however, there`s a lot of light, a lot of angels. You`re being guided. You`re going to be free. And I go on into this reading that was so bizarre. I see dark and light, dark and light. And you know, he cried. I cried. Because it was very emotional. It`s almost like he looked at me thinking like I kind of know what you`re talking about. It was just bizarre. And then we wrapped up. We hugged. I said, Travis, I just want to let you know, as a friend, I love you, I love you, I love you. We went back to sit down. And that was it.
GRACE: We remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant Robert Bennedsen, 21, Vashon Island, Washington. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Parents Tracy and Scott, sister Jamie. Robert Bennedsen, American hero.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about the gun that you used to kill Mr. Alexander? How big was that gun?
ARIAS: It wasn`t very big.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like a toy gun, right?
ARIAS: It looked like a real gun to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Joining us right now is Bryan Carr, a friend of Jodi Arias. Bryan, thank you for being with us.
BRYAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI`S: Yes, no problem.
GRACE: When was the last time you spoke with Jodi?
CARR: This was Sunday, two days ago.
GRACE: And what did she have to say?
CARR: Really just trying to stay positive. She didn`t have to say a lot. I mean, we were talking a little bit about what`s going on, on the outside, basically with a certain person.
GRACE: A certain person? Who is that?
CARR: I don`t want to say his name on -- on the media.
GRACE: OK. So you talked about somebody that -- a mutual friend?
CARR: Right. Right. Someone on the outside. Right.
GRACE: And how is it that you got to know Jodi Arias?
CARR: Yes, actually, my sister, she was a victim of domestic violence. She was in abuse. So I reached my hand out to Jodi and went to visit her in jail. And from there we just started getting to know each other. We -- she`s a great person to talk to. And we ask a lot of personal questions with each other.
GRACE: Like what?
CARR: I mean, just like -- she asks about me, like what do I do for a living. She -- personal questions in that aspect.
GRACE: And I assume that you are convinced of her innocence?
CARR: I -- obviously, she`s not innocent. Obviously she admitted killing Travis. But the reason is -- no one knows the reason why she killed Travis. She`s never had any violent acts in the past.
GRACE: Bryan Carr with us, friend of Arias. Everyone, our eyes on the courtroom as cross-examination goes on. Dr. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.