Wednesday, February 20, 2013

Nancy Grace Transcript: Jodi Arias trial day 3 (videos)

This testimony is from January 8, 2013, it was the third day in the Jodi Arias murder trial.


Bombshell Beauty Murder Trial
Aired January 8, 2013 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Mesa, Arizona. They meet at a conference in Vegas and fall hard. But when the flame burns out and they break up, she then moves 300 miles to pursue him, to get back together, even converting to Mormonism to get her man. Then 30-year-old Travis Alexander`s found dead, slumped in the shower in his five-bedroom luxury home, shot, stabbed 29 times and beaten to death, the violence so brutal it resembles a mob hit.

Bombshell tonight. Gruesome, graphic autopsy photos of Travis Alexander`s dead body as the medical examiner reveals a play-by-play, each step in Alexander`s death, starting with sex shots in the shower, ending with a stab to the heart, a smiley-face neck slash literally from ear to ear, that slash so deep, it goes all the way back to the spine bone, and bloody drag marks on the bedroom carpet.

Jodi Arias in court, wardrobe changes and buckets of tears. Yes, as autopsy photos grip the jury, Arias changes from baby blue to midnight black and dons glasses, gold-rimmed glasses for a, quote, "smart" look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jodi Arias goes back to court today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can have a cut (INAUDIBLE) to the forearm, and it`s consistent with someone trying to either grab the knife or fend off injury.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is a possible shoe impression that was found on the tile floor in the bathroom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell with regard to the gunshot wound to the right temple whether or not (INAUDIBLE) at that point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t see hemorrhaging in the brain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we don`t see hemorrhaging or bleeding, is that an indication that the person was already dead?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They may have been.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her name is Jodi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) pointing fingers (ph) to get directions right away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know. (INAUDIBLE) lots of fights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did he die?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primarily blood loss.

JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: We used to make (ph) videos and things like that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Videos of the two of you together?

ARIAS: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would they be described as sex videos?

ARIAS: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This relationship was about sex.

ARIAS: It eventually became sex.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from CBS "48 Hours."

Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Gruesome and graphic autopsy photos of Travis Alexander`s dead body as the medical examiner reveals a play-by-play, each individual step in Alexander`s death, starting with sex shots in the shower and ending with a stab wound to the heart, a smiley-face neck slash from ear to ear so deep, it goes all the way back to the spine bone, capped off with bloody drag marks as his body was dragged across the bedroom carpet. Jodi Arias`s reaction in court? Of course, wardrobe changes and buckets of tears!

We are live and taking your calls. With me tonight and answering your questions is a special guest. Zack Billings is joining me from the Phoenix courthouse. This is Travis Alexander`s roommate, who actually found his friend, his roommate`s body there in the shower.

To accurately describe what happened in court today, we have photos that were shown to the jury in court. They will be shown to you, as they were to the jury. I will do my best to give you an advisory before I show them to you in case you want to look away.

But first, straight to Beth Karas, legal correspondent, "In Session." Beth, is it true that Arias comes into court in baby blue, today she`s donning gold-rimmed glasses for a smart look, and at some point, changes and puts on a midnight black jacket?

BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Indeed. You are absolutely right. She had on a buttoned-down short sleeve, just little cap-sleeved blouse. And I did think, Wow, it`s a little bit cold for that. And I wasn`t surprised to see her putting a jacket over it later in the day because it does get chilly in the courtroom.

GRACE: Where is she getting her clothes, Beth Karas? And I know that is very superfluous. I know it`s a tangential question. But believe you me, this death penalty defense lawyer she`s got has a plan. Everything is maneuvered. Everything is part of a bigger plan than you and I can even imagine.

So where is she getting these clothes? Are these her clothes from her home?

KARAS: You know, I`m not sure. I will ask her defense attorneys, although they`re not really talking much, to see if they`re bringing her wardrobe or if her mother and aunt, who are in the courtroom -- her mother and her mother`s twin sister -- have provided the clothes. But they`ve been very nice tops that we`ve seen her in, and she`s wearing slacks. The jacket she put on today was a little oversized, so I suspect that that`s not hers.

GRACE: OK, everybody, let`s go through what happened in court today. Of course, there was a fingerprint crime scene tech. But then just before the crime scene tech can actually say that bloody palm print belonged to Jodi Arias, placing her at the scene at the time of the murder, the medical examiner took the stand out of order.

To you, Bonnie Druker. What happened? Why did the ME come on out of order?

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): We`re not exactly sure why he came on out of order, but it could have been something because of his schedule.

All I have to say is when the ME came on, Nancy, it became a horror show, just looking at these pictures, so grisly, so gruesome. I mean, so many of us had to turn away. Travis Alexander`s family walked out of the courtroom crying. And it was just such a grisly, grisly afternoon, Nancy, in court.

GRACE: OK, everyone, as Bonnie and Beth and Jean are describing what happened in court today, we will be showing those crime scene photos. We`re going to be showing portions of the autopsy photos that were shown in court.

Go ahead, Bonnie. Repeat?

DRUKER: Those pictures, Nancy -- I mean, I`ve been in a lot of courtrooms, and I just cannot believe what I saw. It was a horror show. We saw -- again, I want to warn our viewers. We saw the slit neck from ear to ear, and it was so deep, Nancy, that it went all the way back to Travis Alexandria`s spine. At one point, it`s, like, is his head going to be decapitated from the body? That`s just one of the pictures. There were others, as well, a lot of other pictures.

GRACE: You know what you`re reminding me of -- out to you, Jean Casarez. The last time we heard about a neck slash this bad was during the Orenthal James Simpson double murder trial, where Nicole Brown`s neck was slashed so badly, it went all the way to her spine.

And what`s so crazy, everybody, comparing O.J. Simpson to Jodi Arias -- let`s see that two-shot right there again, Liz -- is O.J. Simpson was an NFL football player, a star, right? He`s huge. His hands are huge. He has immense strength compared to Jodi Arias. She is, what, about 5-2 and weighs about 110 pounds, Jean?

JEAN CESAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": She`s 5-4 and a slight 114, 115 pounds.

You know what prosecutors tried to show today was that Jodi Arias attempted to decapitate Travis Alexander, that she attempted to assassinate with one shot to the head Travis Alexander. And we now understand why they had the order that they did of these horrendous acts, because of those hands, the shots you`ve been showing. Those show defensive wounds where he fought back and he tried to survive. And after she slit his throat and after she shot him in the head, he wouldn`t have had the strength to fight back.

GRACE: Everyone, joining me right now, as we are discussing Travis Alexander like he`s a specimen or something out of a book -- the reality is, is he was loved by many, including his dear friend Zack Billings who is joining us tonight.

Zack, thank you for being with us. I know it must be very, very difficult to hear all of us lawyers and reporters talking about your friend like he`s basically state`s exhibit number one. We are looking at it from a trial and analytical angle, and you look at it very differently. In fact, you found his body, did you not?

ZACK BILLINGS, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S ROOMMATE: Yes, I did.

GRACE: Zack, what happened that day?

BILLINGS: Yes, I did, Nancy. And thank you for having me on. That day, I remember, I was actually watching a movie with my girlfriend at the time, or my wife now. And I remember getting a knock on my are door and Travis`s friends came to the door. And they said, Have you seen Travis? And I said, Well, no, I haven`t seen Travis. He`s supposed to be in Cancun or out on vacation right now.

And they said, Yes, he is, but he`s supposed to be here with me, with Mimi (ph). And so I said, Well, have you checked his bedroom? And that was my first thought. So they said, Well, no, we haven`t. The door`s locked. And I said, I think he keeps a spare set of keys downstairs.

So I went downstairs and I searched for them and grabbed a few sets of keys and came back upstairs and tried a few different sets of keys, and one of them happened to be his bedroom key.

And as soon as the door was opened, my heart just sank. And immediately, on the right-hand side, I did end up seeing a pool of blood, and looked down the hallway and saw just blood strewn throughout the hallway. And my heart just sank.

I ended up going into the closet that`s adjacent to the hallway, and it opens up to the bathroom, as well. And that`s when I saw his body. And I came back out and I just told everybody, He`s dead. Call 911.

GRACE: When you say that you opened the door and your heart sank, what exactly did you see that made your heart sink?

BILLINGS: Just a pile of blood on the floor.

GRACE: When was the last time that you had actually seen him or spoken with him?

BILLINGS: The last time I had seen him would have been just the week prior, and it wasn`t anything big. It was just in passing, just saying hi. It would have been the Sunday before he was killed.

GRACE: Did you know Jodi Arias? Did you become acquainted with her while you and Travis were living together?

BILLINGS: Yes, I did. I met her on several different occasions. Jodi actually had an interest in photography, and as has come out, that she loved photography. And at the time, I had done photography semi- professionally, and so we had talked a little bit about it. She had shown me some of her work. I had showed her some of mine. And we just met on other occasions to just chitchat, and you know, How`s life? And that was about it.

GRACE: What was she like? How did she act when she was around Travis?

BILLINGS: When she was around Travis, didn`t act any differently than if she was -- or at least around me, didn`t act any differently than -- than if she was by herself.

GRACE: Were you aware...

BILLINGS: She was -- my interactions were her...

GRACE: ... that his tires -- were you aware his tires had been slashed? Then he gets new tires and moves his car and then they`re slashed again the next day? Did he confide in you what was going on?

BILLINGS: You know, I had heard about that and he told me that had happened. However, I didn`t -- all I was told is that it was an ex- girlfriend, and I wasn`t told specifically that it was Jodi and didn`t hear about that until after the fact.

GRACE: When you saw the bedroom, the bathroom, and confirmed your fears, and you saw his body, his dead body slumped over in that shower, did you think of Jodi Arias?

BILLINGS: At that point in time, my thoughts just went directly towards making sure that everybody involved was OK and that we made sure everything was taken care of. Those thoughts didn`t come on until later -- later that evening.

GRACE: When? So that very day?

BILLINGS: After -- it didn`t come on until after somebody had mentioned that Jodi might quite possibly be involved, and then I started connecting the dots and everything started to make a little more sense.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gripping murder trial in Arizona as Jodi Arias goes back to court today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we looking at?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a lower view of the victim inside of the shower stall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said that there is blood, so is it coming from his head? Did he (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s all over the place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there any decomposition that was associated with the body?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there was a state of what we could call intermediate decomposition or the middle stage of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sadly, we now know Travis did date a killer. It`s now up to the jury to decide if she killed in self-defense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was it because of self-defense? There`s no way in hell it was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s from ABC`s "Good Morning America."

And with me right now, taking your calls, a dear friend of Travis Alexander`s and his roommate, his roommate that found his dead body. With me is Zack Billings, Zack joining us from the courthouse there in Phoenix, where the trial is taking place.

Zack, again, thank you for being with us. When did you see Jodi Arias? When did you first see her after his murder?

BILLINGS: The first time I saw Jodi after -- after the murder and after we found his body was the following Monday at Travis`s memorial service.

GRACE: How did she behave?

BILLINGS: She seemed a little bit differently. I mean, she came in -- she`s normally blond, came in with brown hair. She came up to me, gave me a hug and said...

GRACE: Well, brown hair? Wait, wait.

BILLINGS: ... it was just horrible...

GRACE: Wait a minute. What did you say about brown hair?

BILLINGS: Oh, she`s normally a blond-haired girl, or was when I knew her. And then that week, I happened to see her with brown hair, different color hair entirely. She had come up to me.

GRACE: So in the middle of all of this, finding out that Travis Alexander has been brutally murdered, she dyes her hair?

BILLINGS: Correct.

GRACE: OK. I`m just finding that unusual, Zack, because I`m a crime victim, and when my fiance was murdered, I couldn`t even eat. I didn`t even want to wash my hair, much less go to a salon and get my hair dyed. OK, I just find that very unusual. But go ahead.

BILLINGS: At that point in time, she -- she came up to me and gave me a big hug and just said, Isn`t this horrible? I`m so sorry you had to go through that. And she asked me where I was living at the time. And that was about the extent of our interaction at that point.

GRACE: Did she ask you any questions regarding your discovery of the body?

BILLINGS: She asked me just a brief of what happened as far as my interaction with -- as far as my interaction with anyone else, had the police talked to me. And she already knew at that point that I had seen the body and was asking what the process was going through, what I was going through.

GRACE: Question. When you look back on the way she behaved at that memorial, that funeral, how do you reconcile that? Because at that time, whichever story of hers anybody chooses to believe or disbelieve, whether they believe, A, when she says she didn`t do it, B, that two perpetrators dressed in solid black, a man and a woman, attacked him as she looked on, or three, that she killed him in self-defense -- how do you reconcile her behavior at the memorial with what we now know, that she slashed his throat with such force, it went all the way through his neck, back to his neck bone?

BILLINGS: It`s hard -- it really is hard to fathom her reaction that day and to fathom just how she carried herself that day. If I was in similar circumstances -- and let`s say it was self-defense -- and that happened to me, I would just be in tears. I would not be able to fathom anything.

In fact, I was in tears that day. And to see her just nonchalantly just, How is everything and everything else...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His body was dragged to the shower and he was shot in the head along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More consistent in your view with him hitting something before death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, or something hitting him.

ARIAS: I`ve heard all kinds of rumors. They said there was a lot of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would you do nothing, nothing, to help him?

ARIAS: I was terrified, and I was scared for my life. And I think there was a naive belief that I could pretend like it didn`t really happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That was Arias on CBS "48 Hours."

Welcome back. Joining me tonight is a very dear friend of Travis Alexander, his roommate that actually discovered his dead body there in the shower in the five-bedroom home in which they lived.

Zack, thank you for being with us. You said something just before we had to go to commercial. You said even if it was, say, self-defense -- OK, had you ever observed Travis become aggressively physical with Arias or any other woman?

BILLINGS: No, none whatsoever. In fact, quite the opposite.

GRACE: Explain that to me because he`s getting dragged through the mud here. She is claiming everything from he`s some kind of a sex deviant to beating her, and I don`t buy this.

BILLINGS: One of the last conversations I had -- and I remember having it with Travis -- he was talking to me about a new interest in his life. And he was telling me how excited he was.

And his exact words -- and it`s just burned in my brain -- he said, I`m just extremely Twitter pink (ph). And he said, I am just so excited about this new girl. I just want to -- I want to make things for her. I want to do all of this stuff. And I remember him making this whole dessert specifically because he knew she liked it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually had everything going for him, a beautiful home, a beautiful car, a great income.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead. He`s in his bedroom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s in his bedroom in the shower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that a defensive wound?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could be, yes, consistent with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would be -- from this vantage point, would be to your right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) possible hairs and/or fibers.

ARIAS: I`ve heard all kinds of rumors. I`ve heard there was a lot of blood.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi was Travis`s dirty little secret.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there anything like a sexual relationship with him?

ARIAS: Yes (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. It`s been quite a day in court as murder defendant Jodi Arias breaks down to cry buckets in front of the jury. She also decides to have a wardrobe change as autopsy photos are shown to the jury.

Let me warn you that these are very disturbing.

Liz, let`s go through part of what the jury saw today. These photos have a forensic value. You`re seeing there one of Travis Alexander`s extremely bruised hands. Now what this is going to signify are not only defensive wounds but also the pooling of the blood in the hand and also bruising occurred, which means his heart was still pumping. He was still alive when much of this damage occurred.

The ruler you are seeing is to -- in the autopsy, the cut, the scrapes, the defensive wounds are actually measured so they can be accurately written down in the autopsy report. The width, the length, and the depth of each of these wounds.

There you`re seeing what`s significant here, I believe the medical examiner joining us tonight, Dr. Hua, is going to tell you that there were actually divots in his skull, in his cranium from the knife, and that the neck wound went all the way back. You may actually see a mark on the spine, the neck bone, where the cut went all the way -- he was basically nearly decapitated there in his shower.

These are some of the photos that the jury saw.

Let`s go straight out to Dr. Zhongxue Hua, forensic pathologist, former chief medical examiner.

Doctor Hua, what do these photos say to you? Interpret them for us.

DR. ZHONGXUE HUA, UNION COUNTY, NJ, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Sure. Several things. The first is when the X-ray of the heads showing the bullet fragments, the fracture of the bone and also the other -- on the scene pictures showing the extensive amount of bleeding in the body specifically in the hands, you`re showing the defensive type wound, indicating someone is still alive, active alive, put into a fight, extensive, certainly would be contradictory to the statement the attacker was in the defensive mode.

GRACE: I want to go back to Zack Billings, Travis Alexander`s roommate.

You know, I can`t recall that I did not want to see -- as a crime victim did not want to see my fiance`s dead body, because I felt that that image was -- would be with me the rest of my life.

Have you found that discovering Travis` dead body is the image that is sticking with you?

ZACK BILLINGS, TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S ROOMMATE, FOUND HIS DEAD BODY: Absolutely. It`s something that never really leaves you. I -- anytime it`s brought up, I relive walking through that room and seeing everything I saw that day. And it`s something that will always be with me regardless of how much I try to get it out of my head.

GRACE: You know, I was just remembering -- just hearing you talk, I remember when I saw the casket at a distance. I actually passed out in the funeral home. I guess emotionally and mentally you`re not ready for it.

When you view Jodi Arias now, when you see her, when you remember back, what do you make of her theory that this was a -- she killed him in self- defense because I don`t like sitting back and seeing this young man who came so far in his life from where his parents left him to be dragged through the mud like this. He`s been claimed to be a monster, a sex deviant, awful an aggressor, an abuser that beat her. And I -- I`m getting all of this from her. Why should I believe her?

BILLINGS: You shouldn`t. In fact, Travis was one of the nicest and kindest men I`ve ever met. He was -- he was the type of guy that you just wanted to be around. You always wanted to be like him. You wanted to -- he had a beautiful home. He had great friends. And he was just that type of guy that you just wanted to associate yourself with and be around.

GRACE: You know, I was just thinking about what you just said. Unleash the lawyers, Daryl Cohen, Brian Claypool.

Darryl Cohen, to hear Zack billings describe Travis Alexander falling in love with somebody else after Arias finally left town, when they broke up, and he`s trying so hard to get the ingredients exactly right. He told me in the commercial break the dessert had something to do with mint and mint leaves, and he`s trying to create this dessert for this woman he was falling for.

I find everyone describes him differently than Jodi Arias, Darryl Cohen. And, in fact, she says there has never been any physical abuse up until the time she killed him? So how could that be the battered woman`s syndrome? That`s a syndrome, that`s something you experience over and over and over. It`s a syndrome.

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think the battered woman`s syndrome is exactly what we`re looking at. It doesn`t have to be physical. It can be emotional. Here it is. He was dating her. They broke up. Then he started seeing other people.

GRACE: Yes, and?

COHEN: She found out. She was a woman in fury.

GRACE: Whoa, wait -- no, no, no.

COHEN: And she couldn`t -- no, Nancy, this is the way it is.

GRACE: You said they broke up.

COHEN: She was really upset. Yes, but she still safe --

GRACE: Why shouldn`t they date other people after they broke up?

COHEN: But she didn`t realize it so kept coming back for sex.

GRACE: They broke up.

COHEN: And when she wanted him, and she`s a scorned woman, and she never saw what was going on in her own mind --

GRACE: That`s not battered women`s defense.

COHEN: Nancy, in her her own mind he was emotional.

GRACE: Scorned woman is not battered woman`s syndrome.

COHEN: In her own mind she was doing nothing but defending herself and defending her honor and I can`t tell you that I would represent her this way --

GRACE: Defending her honor?

COHEN: Yes. She did not know what she was doing. In her own mind, she was defending herself and she was out of control. I can`t tell you that I don`t think -- I think she should be entering a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity but what she did is what she did.

GRACE: OK. Brian Claypool, I am so glad we let Darryl go on with his appellate argument to the U.S. Supreme Court right there because everything he said is exactly what the battered woman`s syndrome is not. It is not about revenge from being scorned. It`s not about that at all.

And let`s be clear, they were broken up. He was honorable about it. They broke up. She moved away. He didn`t come back to her. She was the one driving back and forth 300 miles to get back with him.

BRIAN CLAYPOOL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I`ve got to tell you, I really believe that this is a crime of passion. I don`t really think this is self-defense. I think that Jodi Arias drove 300 miles, and I think absent some intervening event, she doesn`t just start stabbing him and shooting him. I think she wanted to get back with him.

GRACE: Well, I can tell you that. They had sex all day and all night.

CLAYPOOL: Well, right, but this is --

GRACE: Then he drops the bomb on her that he`s going to Cancun in a couple of hours with another woman.

CLAYPOOL: Right. Exactly.

GRACE: Hello.

CLAYPOOL: Thank you.

GRACE: And that is not the battered women`s syndrome.

CLAYPOOL: This is second --

GRACE: No, no. No, no. Every time somebody pulls a trigger they`re angry.

CLAYPOOL: This is second-degree murder, Nancy.

GRACE: Just because you`re angry --

CLAYPOOL: It`s not premeditated. It`s a lover`s quarrel. Second-degree murder.

GRACE: Premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye. Premeditation requires just an inkling, a moment of planning. It doesn`t require a long thought-out plan. Being angry is not a defense. The I`m mad, that`s not a defense.

CLAYPOOL: She wasn`t planning this. She carried a gun with her as she drives 300 miles through the desert. She`s a single woman.

Nancy, she`s a single woman driving 300 miles across the desert. She had a gun to protect herself. She is scorned.

GRACE: A gun that she stole from her grandfather. That`s just in the -- Matt Zarrell, let`s go to the timeline. When did she steal the gun from her grandparents?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: She stole the gun from her grandparents at the end of May. I believe it was May 28th. She -- the cops believe that that is when she stole it. And you should know it matches the caliber of bullet and gun used in the murder.

GRACE: May 28th, he`s killed June 4. Right?

ZARRELL: Correct. Correct.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are joining you live tonight from Phoenix.

Out to the lines, Nancy in Virginia, hi, dear, what`s your question?

NANCY, CALLER FROM VIRGINIA: Hi, Nancy. Love you. Love your show. Never miss it.

GRACE: Thank you.

NANCY: Here`s my -- you`re welcome. This is my comment/question. This is so clearly not a case of self-defense. And even if Jodi Arias isn`t in chains, why haven`t her attorneys go with an insanity defense? I mean, their defense attorneys do that all the time.

GRACE: You know what, they do do that all the time when they have absolutely nothing else they can do. And I think what they got stuck with here she is, she changed her story three times, and they were stuck with that so they really couldn`t say she was crazy because they were stuck then with the self-defense.

What about it, Caryn Stark? You`re the psychologist.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s not self-defense. I mean, she`s saying self-defense, Nancy, but it`s not insanity. She could clearly make up these different stories and try very unconvincingly to say that she was beaten by this guy.

And I want to say that this is not battered woman`s syndrome either. Really we can`t even begin to look at that. When you said O.J., I was really struck because this is narcissism, somebody who could not let go. And she was stalking him. She was indeed angry. But angry enough to kill somebody? Maybe he was less than honorable. But did he deserve to be killed? Of course not.

GRACE: And, you know what, I don`t even go, Caryn Stark, with the less than honorable. They broke up.

And, Beth Karas, thank you for correcting me in the commercial break. It wasn`t 300 miles this time. She drove 1,000 miles. She was stalking him even more, Beth?

KARAS: Yes. She used to drive 300 miles before she moved to Mesa because she lived in Southern California. But by the time of this killing, she was living in Yreka, California, with her grandparents near the Oregon border. She drove 1,000 miles. She started out on June 2nd. She rented a car from 90 miles away. She had blond hair. She -- it took her two days to get there. By the time she got there, that`s when she dyed her hair, between renting the car and getting to Travis` house because he took photos of her, which -- and one was shown during opening statements, and she`s got brunette hair.

So she changed her hair. She rented a car 90 miles away and she took the license plates off of one end of the car and turned the other license plate upside down. So that`s some of the evidence we heard in openings. That still will come in through witnesses in the days to come to show what the state says is premeditation.

GRACE: OK. Let me get this straight, Jean Casarez. I want to go back through what Beth Karas just said. She said -- and this is in response to Darryl Cohen and Brian Claypool trying to have some kind of a hybrid defense of woman scorned, I`m mad, battered women`s defense, stalker crazy. That`s where they`re coming from. So this is what we`ve got. She switched the tags around on her car. She stole a gun from her grandparents. She drove 1,000 miles. She went in a car. She altered her appearance. She dyed her hair. She took her own crime scene photos for Pete`s sake. Am I missing anything? Jean?

CASAREZ: Yes. There`s a little bit more to that gun because May 28th there was a "burglary," quote/unquote, in the home and it was reported. And so there`s documentation on that burglary. And there was strange things taken. I mean not the real valuables in the home but like a $20 bill was taken, plus the gun was taken in the burglary and that`s going to come in before the jury.

GRACE: Susan Constantine, body language expert joining us tonight out of Orlando, you`ve been carefully reviewing her behavior in court. What have you observed?

SUSAN CONSTANTINE, BODY LANGUAGE EXPERT: Well, you know, from day one there was that dark villain look. You know, she had that pale skin, the black hair, her attorney was dressed in red so it looked like dominance control and then blood. Then we move forward, we get into day three, and we`re looking at her now in this light blue top, softening up her look. She uses her hair as a hedge of protection around her, which is shielding off.

She doesn`t -- she is creating a barrier between her and the jury. And she has these very vulnerable gestures, her hands are near her neck, near her face, but there`re always barriers of protection around her.

In her videos, you know, she is very calm. She`s very approachable and the thing is what I don`t see in her are all the deceptive indicators that you would find in a deceptive person. What that tells us is that she believes what she is saying and she is very self-deceptive. That`s what I`m seeing with Jodi Arias.

GRACE: To Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, joining us. The sequence of events during the attack has really evolved.

How do you jive that sequence of events that we know happened. For instance, the 10 stab wounds to the back, he received, to her claim of self-defense?

ANDREW SCOTT, FMR. CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FL.; PRESIDENT, AJS CONSULTING: Yes, Nancy, crime scenes seized the true tale of what has expired compared to that of what either the victim or in this case the subject is saying has occurred. And so the physical evidence tells the tale of what actually happened and when you have a suspect such as this young lady here, she is conjuring up various aspects of what she says happened, but they don`t jive with the physical evidence.

This is a classic pitfall that many, many subjects succumb to when they are involved in these types of incidents involving physical evidence and subsequently they wind up getting themselves into trouble because the physical evidence doesn`t comport with what with they`re saying.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are live and taking your calls.

Beth Karas, I want to go through the order in which the murder occurred. And what was the weapon that she used to slice his throat, and explain -- you know what, let`s just go through the order of the murder.

KARAS: OK. Here`s what the prosecution believes the evidence shows. And the ME said today the stab wound to the heart, one of the three major fatal wounds would have been the first one, because the gunshot to the head, through the brain and slashed throat, he never could have fought. As Jean said earlier, he wouldn`t have had defensive wounds. So the stab wound to the heart probably came in the shower when she was photographing him and he`s crouched down and she had him in a vulnerable position. And so she may displayed the knife --

GRACE: What`s he doing crouched down?

KARAS: They don`t know -- the knife was never recovered.

GRACE: Wait a minute. I thought he was crouched down because she stabbed him.

KARAS: Well, OK. It`s interesting. No, he`s not wounded at that point. That`s the last photo taken before what they call an accidental photo. The camera she`s using, she took about 22 pictures of him in the shower, mainly from the waist up. They haven`t been displayed to the jury except a couple in opening statements. All of a sudden, after that crouched shot which is --

GRACE: Why?

KARAS: I don`t know. Well, it`s a good question. Is he posing for her? Because he had been posing. He had been getting in shape for his Cancun trip which was to happen on June 10th, and this is June 4th.

GRACE: With another woman.

KARAS: And so there were these -- with another woman. With Marie Hall, the first witness in the case.

GRACE: Yes.

KARAS: And I mean is he crouching because she`s pulled the knife or gun on him? But yet she`s taking a picture of him, so it may have been just part of that series of pictures --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: This is him posing in the shower that Beth is telling you about, everybody.

Let me see that shot again. Oh, no, no, Beth. If she had a big knife or a gun, I don`t think he would be posed, I think he would be trying to defend himself.

KARAS: No, not yet. Not yet. He`s 5`9", she`s 5`4", she need to get him in a vulnerable position to level the playing fight for fighting him, right? So he`s down and that`s when she may be -- this could be argued -- displays a knife and stabs him. And the fight begins. Maybe where she stabs him and the fight begins. She has stunned him. He grabs the knife. He gets those defensive wounds in his hands, deep wounds in his left hand, mainly in his left hand, a little one on his right hand.

And then he gets up. He would have had the ability to get up even if stabbed in the heart because it wasn`t immediately fatal. So there`s blood around the master bathroom, and he`s stumbling, maybe fighting her. He stands over the sink. Remember that bloody sink? Well, he stands over it. He`s dripping into it. And it is possible that as he`s leaning over it, he`s spitting blood -- that`s the spatter -- she starts stabbing him in the head and in the back. All those stab wounds to the back.

And then -- now he`s getting dizzy, losing consciousness. He heads down the hall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We remember American hero, Army Private 1st Class Jordan Brochu, 20, Cumberland, Maine, killed, Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Good Conduct medal. Loved fishing video games, sports, cooking, writing poetry. Leaves behind parents Dan and Suzanne, sisters April, Sadie, brother Aaron.

Jordan Brochu. American hero.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: We were intimate, but I wouldn`t say romantic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: References to being used sexually by Miss Arias.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Beth Karas, you were going through what we believe to be the order of the murder. It was so diversified. There were so many things to comprehend.

Beth, what can you tell me about upcoming voicemail messages that are set to come into evidence?

KARAS: Well, we did learn through the defense opening statement that a couple days after she killed Travis Alexander, Jodi Arias says she left him a message on June 7th. All right? His body is not found until the 9th, she kills him on the 4th. She leaves him a message on the 7th. That`s at least what she told Detective Flores that she`s had left a message, she hadn`t heard from him. She didn`t know what had happened to him and she was shocked to hear that he had died and she was fishing for information. She says she hasn`t seen him since the previous April.

GRACE: You know, it`s my understanding also, Bonnie Druker, speaking of voicemails and messages, that somehow, and I`m not sure why or how or which side is doing it, that a series of sex messages are going to be introduced.

DRUKER: Yes, and already there`s been some sexually explicit evidence in the courtroom. Travis Alexander asked Jodi Arias or stated to her that he was nothing more than a dildo with a heartbeat, and some of the words like whore and slut have come out, so I just anticipate of getting even more sexual as time goes by in this trial.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Mary in Indiana. Hi, Mary. What`s your question?

MARY, CALLER FRO MARY: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to say thank god that you`re standing up for the victim, and he was the victim. I just think it`s a shame listening to these people try to say that it was battered women`s syndrome. I was in an abusive relationship for 18 years, and that`s kind of like an insult to the people that actually went through a situation like that.

GRACE: You know what, Mary, you`re right. And to top it all off, Beth Karas, he did not have an easy upbringing, did he?

KARAS: No, he did not. He had a very humble upbringing in California, as did Jodi Arias. Both of them did not come from a lot. Very humble. And Travis was really a success story in his family, and then his siblings were very proud of him.

GRACE: You know, Beth Karas, you, Jean, Bonnie, all of us back in the courtroom tomorrow.

"DR. DREW" up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END 

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