Thursday, February 28, 2013

Jodi Arias trial: Thoughts on Jodi Arias' journal (videos)

I have a few thoughts on Jodi Arias' journal. If you recall, prosecutor Juan Martinez made several references to blatant omissions from Jodi Arias' journal, such as any instances of him physically or sexually abusing her, or breaking her finger. We also didn't see anything in her journal that would express her displeasure with him seeing or sleeping with other women.

This fact alone lets us know that she was not putting her true feelings in her journal.
Prosecutor Juan Martinez holds up Jodi Arias' journal during cross-examination in the murder trial of Travis Alexander

There is no woman on the planet who journals, yet isn't going to pour out her anger about a cheating lover in her journal, agreed? I mean, if this type of omission is made, there's a reason.

I truly believe that the omissions from Jodi Arias' journal about any negative aspects of Travis, or mention of her going to Mesa, Arizona shows that she was specifically not writing things in her journal that would incriminate her.

It's interesting, because it would have been beneficial to her defense to have filled her journal with all sorts of entries alleging abuse. She didn't.

Jodi Arias' journal gives the impression that she and Travis Alexander were a couple and that she was completley in love with him.

I believe her journal reads that way, because she thought that it might be looked at one day, quite possibly after the murder.

Another intersting point is that Arias did not detail a murderous plot in her journal. Again, I believe the omissions from Jodi ARias' journal were deliberate attempts to reduce the evidence trail as she planned to murder Travis Alexander.

Jodi Arias trial: Arias testifies with zero body language (videos, photos)

One of the most notable aspects of the Jodi Arias trial, and that indicates she is lying, is that she testifies with zero body language.

I mean, we're talking ZERO body language. If you watch commentators and analysts discussing the trial, they express more body language than Jodi Arias when retelling her account of the murder.

Prosecutor Juan Martinez uses a tremendous amount of body language while Arias remains stoic, smiles, smirks and ensures that she makes plenty of contact with the jury. In fact, the most body language Jodi Arias displays on the stand is her frequent head turns when she tries her best to connect with the jury and avoid the death penalty.

Whether describing being body slammed, choked, hit, sexually assaulted, slammed to the floor and hitting head against tile, Jodi Arias never, under no circumstances, ever, uses hands to demonstrate any of these actions. Never does she use her hands to show HOW Travis Alexander grabbed, choked, hit or slammed  her.

Have you ever watched someone detail an account without using their body such as their hands? Would you tell another person how someone attacked you without once demonstrating with your hands and body language what happened?

Another area where Jodi Arias exhibits zero body language is involving fear.

Jodi Arias' voice never quakes, shakes, breaks or trembles when explaining mortal terror and absolute fear. Again, the only time her voice patterns change is when she is angry with the prosecutor for the tone he is using with her. Even then, we do not see a meek, timid woman who is a victim of battered woman's syndrome, but rather an aggressive woman who rises to the challenge.

On Feb. 28, 2013, Jodi Arias broke down and cried on the stand. She shielded her face and refused to look at crime scene photos of Travis Alexander. What she didn't do, however, is become so emotional that she could not continue to give her routine answers of "Yes," "I don't know," and "I don't remember."

Is it possible that Jodi Arias really doesn't remember every thrust of the 29 stab wounds into Travis Alexander's heart, back and chest? Is it possible she doesn't remember the way the knife felt in her hand when she slit his throat from ear to ear? Could she really not remember pulling the trigger and shooting him in the head (well, on this she does say she remembers, but her story is implausible).

I believe it is more than possible she doesn't remember every detail of this two-minute murder that must have been one of the most evil and violent crimes known in American history. Imagine, everything that Jodi Arias did in two minutes!

Many people don't remember their episodes of rage and violence. Some say they blacked out, or felt possessed and that a supernatural force took over. I think it is highly possible and plausible that Jodi Arias doesn't remember every detail, but not because of battered woman syndrome or because of intense fear.

This was a woman who exhibited rage and violence beyond human comprehension.

I wonder if those memories flood her dreams and turn them into nightmares.

Jodi Arias trial: Arias cries on stand when shown photos of Travis Alexander (videos, photos)

On Feb. 28, 2013, Jodi Arias broke down on the stand and cried when prosecutor Juan Martinez showed the woman charged with first-degree murder photos of the deceased victim Travis Alexander.

Juan Martinez displayed this diagram of where Jodi Arias claims she was when Travis Alexander body slammed her.
Juan Martinez grilled her from the onset of the day's proceedings then took her through the critical two minutes of the murder that saw Travis Alexander taking a shower then slumped over on a bathroom floor with a pool of blood underneath him. Martinez did not miss a beat once Arias covered her face with her hands and began to sob.
Jodi Arias cries under cross-examination on Feb. 28, 2013, when shown photos of Travis Alexander's deceased body in the shower.

"Ma'am were you crying when you were shooting him? Juan Martinez asked, his voice maintaining the same aggressive tone that had previously caused Arias' brain to scramble.

Photo of Travis Alexander's deceased body in the shower shown to jury on Feb. 28, 2013. It was at this point in the trial that Jodi Alexander broke down crying.

"I don't remember," Jodi Arias answered while palming her glasses and crying into her hand.

"Were you crying when you were stabbing him?" Juan Martinez grilled.

Jodi Arias' shoulders trembled then she replied, "I don't remember."

Again, Juan Martinez asked, "How about when you cut his throat? Were you crying then?

Jodi Arias continued to cry, then sniffed, shook her head and stated, "I don't know."

The courtroom was hushed as it was the first visible signs from Arias that she felt something regarding the horrific way in which she murdered her lover of several years.

Juan Martinez continued, urging Arias to look at photos of her handiwork.

"Well take a look ma'am. You're the one that did this right?" He asked.

Jodi Arias continued to sob then nodded her head, "Yes." she replied.

Juan Martinez then asked, "And you're the same individual that lied about this, right?"

Jodi Arias' cries grew stronger as she placed her other hand over her face, shielding herself from the jury, spectators and those watching on live stream.
"Yes," she answered while removing her glasses and once again covered her face with her hands.

Prosecutor Martinez again stated, "Then take a look at it."

Arias didn't look at the gruesome photos. Instead, she continued to sob in to her hands while covering her face.

Finally, Judge Sherry Stephens called for an early recess. Arias' attorney Kirk Nurmi approached and assisted her from the stand.

Court is scheduled to resume at 3:30 p.m. ET.

You may watch live streaming coverage of the Jodi Arias trial in the video player above.

Watch Jodi Arias trial streaming live online Feb. 28, 2013, cross-examination (videos)

It's Feb. 28, 2013, and things are heating up in the Jodi Arias trial.  Jodi Arias has been charged with first-degree murder for the death of her lover Travis Alexander. The prosecution alleges that on June 4, 2008, Arias premeditated the murder that left the victim with a gunshot to his head, 29 stab wounds, and his throat slit from ear to ear. His body was left in a shower decomposing for five days, before friends made the gruesome discovery.

Jodi Arias appears in court on Feb. 28, 2013 for her fifth day of cross-examination for the June 4, 2008, murder of Travis Alexander. (video credit In Session pool camera)

From the onset, his friends suspected and named Jodi Arias as a perpetrator and stated the victim told them she had stalked him and previously slashed his tires. While Travis Alexander referred to Jodi Arias as a stalker, it didn't stop him from sleeping with her. In fact, photographic and video evidence taken from the day of the murder shows the two had sex hours before the murder.

Arias first said she wasn't in Mesa, Arizona at the time of the killing, then after she learned that authorities had proof she was in the house, she said two ninjas broke in and committed the heinous act. She finally stated that she killed Travis in self-defense, as he had put "mortal terror" into her.

After eight days of direct testimony, prosecutor Juan Martinez has grilled Jodi Arias retelling her lies and forcing her to admit to the jury that she had been untruthful from the beginning. On Feb. 27, 2013, he introduced evidence that Jodi Arias premeditated the murder by purchasing gas and gas cans out of state in order to deflect her trial. Her license plates were on her vehicle upside down as well.

Arias's grandparents gun was stolen weeks before the murder and a bullet casing retrieved from the crime scene was of the same caliber as the one stolen from Arias' grandparent's home. The murder weapon nor knife used in the murder have been found.

Arias has also claimed severe memory loss regarding the murder and has repeatedly stated, "I don't know, " or "I don't remember" when asked specific details regarding the murder.

You may watch Arizona vs. Jodi Arias live streaming when court is in session in the video player below.

Live Video app for Facebook by Ustream

Nancy Grace transcripts: Jodi Arias trial day 24, cross-examination day 3 (videos)

On Feb. 27, 2013, Jodi Arias took the stand for the fourth day of cross-examination. You may watch the full video below and read Nancy Grace's transcript from her show that aired the same day.

Nancy Grace airs on HLN, check your local listings for times.

Jodi Arias on Cross for Third Day
Aired February 27, 2013 - 20:00   ET


JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: She was standing over Travis, near him (ph), and he was -- the guy with the gun was standing near me. He pulled the trigger and nothing happened.

Can`t keep my stories straight.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re not true.

ARIAS: Neither of them.

I was hyperventilating and my heart was racing.

It`s all the same thing. It`s just different versions.

Couldn`t keep my lies straight.

I started to pull on him and I said, Come on, come on, come one, let`s go, let`s go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you lie to the detective, yes or no?





ARIAS: Yes, everyone.



ALEXANDER: I`m going to tie you to a tree and (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ARIAS: My panties were missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "I want to lick it up and then sit on it. You are so tasty. My goodness."

"I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a dirty, horny little school girl," right?


(INAUDIBLE) horny toad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "Hey, hottie biscotti."

ARIAS: I called a lot of people that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was square (ph). Couldn`t you see that?

ARIAS: I`m nearsighted.

I want to know what you`re talking about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I`m asking you.

ARIAS: (INAUDIBLE) yes or no question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a yes or no question, isn`t it.

ARIAS: And I answered no three times, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you also added something three times, didn`t you.

ARIAS: Yes, the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a prognosticator of the future, are you?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Am I asking you right now if you`re telling the truth.

ARIAS: I don`t know. Are you?


GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Day after day, Arias on the stand dragging murder victim Travis Alexander through the mud. But then the defense emerges. Arias claims, after she stabs him 29 times, holding his head back, slashing him ear to ear, to the chest, the heart, the back, leaving him dead in the shower stall -- she tells the jury she can`t remember a thing.

In the last hours, more cross-exam turns ferocious fight between Arias and the prosecution. On direct with her lawyers, she remembers everything. She`s poised, then goes into a crying jag, recalling minute details dating back years. But on cross, she recalls practically nothing.

Bombshell tonight. The prosecution gets down to the nitty-gritty, and I mean gritty, using Arias`s own words in XXX-rated text messages, firing them all right back at her as she sits on the stand.

We are live and camped outside that Phoenix courthouse. Let`s go straight out to Jean Casarez. Jean, using her own words against her -- how did it go down?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, the theme of today, premeditation, Nancy, using her own words against her involving this gun. Remember, she testified on direct that she found a gun in the closet of Travis`s, but it was shown today through an audio recording that she made to Detective Flores one day after the body of Travis was found, when asked, she said, Travis didn`t own a gun. No, he wasn`t into that. He never owned a gun.

And now the knife, the knife. She gives a reason why a knife was in the bedroom, saying that Travis stretched out this cord all the way into the bathroom and he cut it so he could tie her up. Thus, a knife must have been left in the bathroom.

GRACE: Liz, pull me up that sound of Jodi Arias when she is in her interview with Detective Flores and she is asked about the gun and she says, No, not to my knowledge, he didn`t have a gun.

OK, Jean, so the prosecution is focusing in on the gun and premeditation, the point being that when she left town with that gun, she planned to use it on Travis Alexander.

CASAREZ: Right because her grandparents` home was burglarized with the same caliber of gun missing as was used to shoot Travis. As you say, Nancy, no coincidence in criminal law.

GRACE: Out to you, Christina Estes, reporter and anchor, KTAR. Christina, weigh in.

CHRISTINA ESTES, KTAR (via telephone): Well, Jean mentioned the theme today, premeditation, also sex, texts and lies. We`ve heard Jodi`s lies in the past. We`re hearing them in excruciating detail today, from the recorded phone call, where the prosecutor was able to say, Here`s what you said and here`s what you`re testifying to, the text messages that we`ve heard before, and also pulled up past interviews she`s done with the media and with, again, Detective Flores, saying, This was a lie. Are you telling a truth now? This was a lie...

GRACE: Exactly -- Christina, exactly why defense attorneys always say, Don`t speak. In fact, I`ve seen defense attorneys handing out their business cards in the courthouse, and on the back, they`ve got Miranda. And they`ve got, You have the right to remain silent. This means don`t talk to police ever, in bright red!

All right, listen to what she said to Flores.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But then I don`t understand why, why you -- why you took a gun with you.

ARIAS: Oh, I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s that come from, then? Where did you get it? Everybody says he didn`t have one. Where did you get it, if you didn`t take it? Did he have one in the house?

ARIAS: Not to my knowledge.


GRACE: There you see her speaking, directly contradicting what she is telling this jury.

Back to you, Jean Casarez. The X-rated text messages -- you know, I`ve heard them so many times, I`m numb. I`m not even shocked anymore, all right? And I`m sure the jury is feeling the same way.

What is the point of playing these messages and firing them right back at her on the stand?

CASAREZ: Because it shows that she was the initiator in much of this, that she was the aggressor, that she was the one that loved this and asked him to do certain things sexually. So she`s not a victim under the control and power of Travis Alexander when it comes to the sexual episodes.

GRACE: Out to you, Matt Zarrell. We have been poring over and over the particular text messages that the prosecution has used against her today. Explain what you think is the significance.

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, there are two specific text messages, Nancy, I want to highlight, both from February 25th, 2008, just a few months before Travis`s death, where in the first one, Arias suggests that Travis spank her, suggesting she is the one who wants him to physically hit her. Then there`s a text message, also the same day, where Arias brings up having sex with Travis while she`s dressed up like a school girl.

Now, again, Arias is the one who is always saying Travis had control over their sexual relationship and was the one who suggested the school girl, but here it`s Arias who is the one who brings it up after Travis sends a photo of his genitals.

GRACE: You know, Matt, I`ve known you a long time, and to hear this all just spilling off your tongue just seems wrong. But I guess we`re all in the same boat together, so we might as well all start rowing because we`re going to have to say these text messages over and over and over again. I think you`re right, Matt, because you and Jean are saying the same thing.

All along -- you know what? Unleash the lawyers. Monica Lindstrom joining me, defense attorney right there in Phoenix. Also with us, veteran defense attorney Peter Odom of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

Peter, don`t you just hate it when you try to claim battered women`s syndrome, self-defense, and throughout, you know, weeks on the stand on direct, your client talks about how she was forced to do this and forced to do that. He made me have anal sex. I didn`t want to do this. He did this to me while I was sleeping, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then on cross, the prosecution opens it up and fires those text messages back at her, where she says of her own volition that this is her idea, that she`s loving it, that these are their mutual fantasies. There goes that defense!

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, not at all, Nancy. She has been setting the agenda for this trial from the very beginning. The prosecution seems to have forgotten that this is a case about murder. Jodi Arias decided this was going to be a case about their sex life, and the prosecution has bought it hook, line and sinker, and their entire cross- examination has been about the sex life.

GRACE: Mr. Odom...

ODOM: How about a murder?

GRACE: ... could you address my question?

ODOM: Nancy, your question doesn`t make even any sense. You`re asking...

GRACE: So that would be a no. All right...

ODOM: ... how do you like it when that -- when the battered woman`s syndrome...


GRACE: Monica, let`s answer the question. Part of the self-defense was that, He beat me, he slapped me, he this, he that, he forced me to have anal sex, he forced me to perform oral sex, he had sex with me in my sleep. I didn`t know what was going on.

It goes on and on and on and on about all the sexual incidents that were forced on her, which was very integral, as a matter of fact, to what she told her psychologist. That`s part of her defense.

MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think the sex part has anything to do with it. I don`t think it has anything to do with her self- defense. She`s claiming that he pushed her down, he climbed on top of her, he choked her out, he kicked her, he broke her finger, he backhanded her. That`s what she is talking about when she`s saying self-defense. She hasn`t said that she was raped or that she was forced to have sex with him. She said she enjoyed it. So it`s not about the sex for her self-defense.

Her self-defense is based on the fact that he beat her, he pushed her down, he kicked her, and he broke her finger, not to mention just backhanding her in the car. So that`s what self-defense is based on, not the fact that she enjoys sex with him or she didn`t enjoy sex with him. That`s just an extra part of the story that the prosecution is loving to put out there right now to make it look like she`s also a bad person.

GRACE: Let`s go to someone that has been watching and listening to the testimony every day. Matt Zarrell, could you explain why the sex is part of her claim of the battered woman syndrome defense.

ZARRELL: OK, let me first establish this. The first day, the defense opening, they called Travis a sexual deviant. And they said that Travis was the one who had control, that he physically forced her into sexual acts that she did not want to do, and that is why she felt the need to self- defense, that she was being attacked by Travis and this was part of it, that the sex was all part of the control that Travis had over her.

GRACE: Exactly. And that is what we have been hearing. Excuse me, Monica, have you been in the courtroom every day?

LINDSTROM: Not every day, but I`ve been listening to it every day.

GRACE: OK. Thank you.

LINDSTROM: And I`ve been in the courtroom.

GRACE: No, no!

LINDSTROM: And what she`s focusing on...

GRACE: No, I just asked you...

LINDSTROM: ... are other physical attributes, not...

GRACE: ... have you been in the courtroom every day...


GRACE: ... because we have.


GRACE: We have been in the courtroom every day.


GRACE: Jean Casarez, isn`t her theory that he has been forcing deviant sex on her part of the whole claim that he controlled her, and that on the day of the killing, she was ready to snap, which is the battered woman`s syndrome defense, because she was conditioned after all these months of mistreatment? That is the battered woman`s syndrome defense, and that`s where the sex becomes very critical.

CASAREZ: Very critical because it`s the foundation of it all. They started off having sex and having him control her, they say, with this power and domination, and she became a victim right then. And thus the cycle began, and it escalated after she found him with pictures of little boys enjoying himself, and that`s when it became the cycle of violence.

GRACE: Exactly. And again, Jean, I think what many people don`t understand is there is a subtle but important difference between a straight-out self-defense case, where I pull a gun on you and you shoot me first, boom, you acted in self-defense, as opposed to self-defense engendered by a battered women syndrome, which is the woman claims that -- and I worked in a battered women`s center for about 10 years as a volunteer while I prosecuted during the day.

So what happens in that is the woman is beaten and mistreated over and over and over. It becomes a cycle. It is a syndrome. And there are reasons she stays in the home or in the relationship. And then at the time of the killing, it`s basically the culmination of many years of abuse. That`s what the battered women`s syndrome defense is, is it not, Jean?

CASAREZ: Yes, it is. And the jury is going to get an instruction, we will see -- the defense will want it -- that the state of mind of Jodi they must look at from someone who has been abused within that cycle of violence.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It can also be fair to say that what people say during phone sex isn`t necessarily true. Wouldn`t you agree to that?

ARIAS: I would agree to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What you said in your phone sex conversation with Mr. Alexander, according to your own testimony, part of it was a lie, wasn`t it?

ARIAS: Yes, part of it was a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, it was a lie, right? And so at least if we`re using this conversation as a point of reference, people, you and Mr. Alexander, but you specifically, you lied to him, right?

ARIAS: I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And there was no harm in it because it was just a fantasy kind of conversation, wasn`t it.

ARIAS: Yes, it was just fantasy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, and -- so that if he says he wants to tie you up to a tree and stick it up your (EXPLETIVE DELETED), that could also be seen as fantasy, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That never happened, did it.



GRACE: Well, when I told you this ain`t no tea party, I really meant it because we got to bleep that prosecutor out every other minute. But he is reading verbatim from her text messages, all right? That`s where all this is coming from.

Unleash the lawyers, please -- Monica Lindstrom, defense attorney, Phoenix, Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta. So as both of you well know, since you are criminal attorneys, rape is not about sex, all right? It is about violence. It is about control. And that is a critical factor in this case.

Now, you were telling me your theories on the battered women`s syndrome before we went to break. Now, Peter, it`s my understanding that neither you or Monica have ever actually personally handled a case that involved the battered women`s syndrome defense, is that correct?

ODOM: Correct.

GRACE: Ah. OK. Out to the lines.

ODOM: I`ve never used it -- and I`ve never used it and I`ve never had it used against me...

GRACE: Well, then I appreciate you...

ODOM: ... when I was a prosecutor.

GRACE: ... being honest about that. Out to Heather in Washington state. Hi, Heather. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, hi, Nancy. During the last four days, it`s been pretty much established Jodi`s a liar, even by her own admission. But being a liar doesn`t make you a murderer.

Now, I think she did it, but my question is, without a knife with prints or without the murder -- the gun, what do you think is the key piece of evidence or the key thing that will get a murder one conviction? My concern is she won`t get that.

GRACE: Heather in Washington state, you`re very astute. Let`s go back to Monica and Peter. And I`m going to bring in Leslie also in just a moment, too, on this. She`s right, Peter and Monica. We don`t have a murder weapon. We don`t have a knife. We don`t have a gun. That hurts.

Now, you don`t have to have it. And I would say the majority of the murder cases I prosecuted, I don`t believe I had a murder weapon, maybe 50/50. But in this case, Peter -- you were a prosecutor for many years before you became a defense attorney. What do you think? I think the nine stab wounds to the back -- that says it all to me. But what do you think is the strongest evidence for the state? I`m asking you for the strongest evidence for the state, Peter. Think! Think!

ODOM: The strongest evidence for the state, in my opinion, is the fact that she`s told three different stories.

GRACE: Yes. That`s a good one.

ODOM: That`s the hardest thing for them to get around. Everything...

GRACE: Monica...

ODOM: They can`t disprove anything else.

GRACE: No, I agree with you. I would rank that right up there. I would put that number two behind the nine stab wounds to the back. What about it, Monica?

LINDSTROM: Well, I think number one is the fact that she confessed. She straight up admitted to the fact that she killed him. A close second, I think, is the camera. The camera puts her there. The camera shows that she`s involved. The camera even takes some pictures that she didn`t want pictures taken of. So I think that that is essentially the smoking gun.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are dressed up in a certain fashion, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it also implies that or indicates that it`s you that`s the person that likes this sort of activity and looking like a horny little school girl, right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although we heard previously some talk about braids and that it was only him that wanted that, it was a consensual, mutual relationship, sexually speaking, wasn`t it.

ARIAS: Yes, always.


GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the Arias courthouse, where it is getting hot, and even more so than yesterday, today the prosecution firing back Jodi Arias`s own text messages right back at her. And let me warn you it`s XXX.

We are taking your calls. Out to Mary in Pennsylvania. Hi, Mary. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you. I wish all lawyers could be like you, especially a lot of the defense attorneys.

GRACE: Thank you. I appreciate that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I get so mad that so many people are complaining that the prosecutor is dragging her cross-examination out, when that defense attorney took nine days to get nothing but nonsense and lies out of her. And it just infuriates me because it`s so important that he gets as much as he can, you know, to the people, or the jury.

GRACE: And your question is that -- your comment is you disagree with that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I just get so -- it`s more like a comment that I get so angry that...

GRACE: Well, let me tell you my observations on this, Mary in Pennsylvania, since you brought it up. And I think you`re right to bring it up because I`m hearing it everywhere I turn. Oh, the prosecutor is being so hard. You know what I have to say to that? Eh! Eh! Eh! Because do you remember what happened in tot mom, Casey Anthony? The state held back a lot of things they could have brought in, and look what happened.

This is the time -- too hard? I don`t think he`s being hard enough because what you are seeing on the stand is like she`s at, what, a knitting party, she`s at a quilting bee? No. That is not the Jodi Arias that Travis Alexander saw while she stabbed him to death. That is the truth, and that is what this jury must see.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said, "Oh, yes, I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like a dirty, horny little school girl," right?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the school girl issue here in this conversation is being brought up by you, not by him, right?

ARIAS: That`s right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And, in fact, this issue about this schoolgirl that may have been presented as part of the conversation on May 10th of 2008, well, you were enjoying it, too, weren`t you?

ARIAS: I don`t think we said schoolgirl on the tape.


ARIAS: I don`t think I said schoolgirl on the tape, but, as far as that goes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You liked dressing up like a horny little schoolgirl for lack of a better term, right?

ARIAS: Well, I think I said on direct I didn`t have a schoolgirl outfit, but it was kind of -- that was the idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?



GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. We are camped outside the courthouse bringing you the latest in the Arias trial. And don`t get me wrong, I don`t care if she dresses up like Abraham Lincoln and Betsy Ross, I don`t care, but the point that the prosecution is making here, out to you, Jean Casarez, is that she is trying to tell this jury that Travis Alexander is a sex deviant that beat and abused her sexually, and now we`re seeing evidence, her own text messages, that she was the one that came up with the dress-up scenarios -- not judging -- that she`s the one that introduced him to KY lubricant jelly. He had never even used that before. He started the masturbating with her. All of this came about with the advent of Jodi Arias in his life, and the whole point of this is the prosecution is showing if he will only connect those dots for the jury, you can`t leave it wide open, is that she is the one that introduced these practices to him. He is not the deviant in this scenario.

CASAREZ: No, exactly right. And she admitted on direct examination that it was consensual. But now the prosecutor is taking it one step farther. And you know something else that came in today? The character of Travis Alexander, that he was trying to follow his faith, that he was trying to be a good Mormon, and she was the one that kept steering him the wrong way.

GRACE: You know, Jean, we`ve heard so many conflicting stories, but even within her interviews with "48 Hours," her stories conflicted, didn`t they, Jean?

CASAREZ: Oh, big time. Big time. Nancy, we heard a third scenario today of what happened on June 4th in the bedroom and bathroom, and it`s very convoluted, but it involved the two people, and the details are amazing, and she had to say on the stand I couldn`t even get my own story straight.

GRACE: OK. Listen to this, Jean, this is part of what was played in the courtroom in front of that jury. You be the judge.


ARIAS: I`ll talk about this, and nobody knows this. The detectives know this because I`ve spoken with them.

Boy, this is really hard. I am trying to think if I want to say this or not.

I -- there`s a lot of evidence that places me at Travis` house the day he was -- not just the day he was killed, but the day -- you know, most of that week. And there is a reason for that. And that reason is that I did see Travis the day that he passed away, and a lot of things happened that day.


GRACE: Notice the pauses and the looking away as she`s trying to fabricate the story for "48 Hours."


ARIAS: And I was told that I can`t speak about it or tell anyone about it. Because my family`s life was in danger over it. I was told that if I did, that they would all die, and that I would die. And that was kind of the end of the story.

There was an argument amongst some people, two individuals, that one wanted to take my life and one said, you know, that`s not why we came. At one point the guy with the gun sort of succumbed to her pressure. I think, because he was holding the gun at my forehead, and I was on the ground, on my knees, and was near the armoire of where he kept his TV in his bedroom, and Travis was in the bathroom. And she was standing over Travis, near him, and he was -- the guy with the gun was standing near me, and, again, this argument was going on back and forth.

And I just remember holding my head and closing my eyes, and then there was so much that went on that day, but the short of it is he pulled the trigger and nothing happened. Just a click. And I realized then that he probably, I don`t know if that means that he was out of bullets or, I don`t know what that means. I wasn`t that familiar with handguns. And so at that point I pushed past him and I ran downstairs. He didn`t make much of an effort to stop me. But I could almost swear that I heard someone following me down the stairs, and I ran out the front door and I got into my car and I drove and I left.


GRACE: That part of the story stayed the same, how she got in her car and drove away off into the desert.

Susan Constantine, you`re the body language expert/jury consultant. I`m not a professional in that, but I can look at somebody, and the wheels are turning. She`s trying to make up the story as she talks.

CONSTANTINE: Yes, and you can see that too by her pausing, her hesitation. She looks down, she is processing. She is trying to figure out where she is going to pull the next one up, and then when she pulls one up, then she looks up, and then she tries to deliver it, and then she`ll look up, right to left to kind of constructing and bringing some truth to it, mixing it together, but it`s her voice.

But the other thing I don`t see is fear. So when she is talking about an experience like that, that should be fearful when a gun is being pointed at her head, you would see these expressions of fear, and her voice also would show the same thing. So her words and her body language just don`t match up.

GRACE: You know, that`s interesting, about not showing fear. She recounts this moment when her beloved was murdered, and when she almost lost her life, but now listen to this story. She couldn`t keep her stories straight even within the same interview.


ARIAS: He left the room for a minute, maybe a few minutes. And she was in the bathroom standing over Travis. And I charged her. I ran down that hall and I pushed her as hard as I could, and she fell over him, landed near the sink. There is two sinks in the master bath, and she landed near the left sink, near the -- kind of near the trash can, close to the windows. And I started to pull on him and I said, come on, come on. Come on, let`s go. Let`s go. And he just wasn`t -- sluggish, lethargic, and he just wasn`t getting up, and he wasn`t really saying much of anything. He was there and he was conscious and I could see that. He wasn`t saying much.

I was able to get him about half -- he was sort of not crawling but he was kind of moving and trying to stand up, and I was able to get him about halfway down the hall when she came back at me and we struggled.


GRACE: To Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Dr. Leslie, I mean, this is another interview with "48 Hours," and her story completely changes. Now she is trying to save his life.

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right. It`s completely incredible, and the most important point here is that in these interviews, and especially on the stand, she is smug, she is superior, she is sassing everybody. She is almost flirtatious. She shows no sign of trauma. She shows not one sign, behaviorally or emotionally, of having been an abused woman. There`s no trauma, there`s no fear, there is no true emotion of regret or fear.

I don`t believe a word she says except that she believes that she is very brilliant and that everybody else will believe her, and I think the jury will see that, see through it in a heartbeat.


GRACE: After weeks of seemingly irrelevant, innocuous testimony from Jodi Arias on the stand, finally, this week, we get to the day that Travis Alexander was slaughtered, slaughtered in his own shower. Her story begins to veer almost out of control. And what I mean by that is that she is starting to catch herself in one inconsistency after the next. That`s what happens when you talk too much.

Let me tell you this. Arias` lawyers better be worried about cross exam. They`ve taken a very big gamble putting her on the stand. I don`t believe it`s going to pay off for them.

We are live camped outside the courthouse. Now joining us Beth Karas, in addition to Jean Casarez. Beth, what do you think was the biggest land mine for Jodi Arias today on cross?

KARAS: Nancy, I wish you had been in the courtroom because you can appreciate a good cross-examination. He was backing her into corners all day. But one of the biggest points he made, and she caved, was that she actually bought a third gas can, after borrowing two from her ex-boyfriend. But before admitting she bought a third gas can, he said to her, why did you borrow gas cans from your ex-boyfriend? Why didn`t you just buy them? Well, they were too expensive and they weren`t in my budget. Ah, but it`s not true, is it? You did buy one. Yes, she caved immediately, and one of the receipts already in evidence shows a gas can that says 5g kero for kerosene or whatever. It`s a gas can. She says she brought it back. But then he took her through receipts -- that was in Salinas (ph), that`s where she bought it, down in Pasadena, where she had three gas purchases, all in a row within minutes of each other. One appears to be for the car on the debit card, and two were cash purchases, one for 9.5 gallons. That`s the two five-gallon gas cans that she borrowed from Darryl Brewer (ph), and then a little over two gallons in the third one.

She started backing off saying, no, those were two purchases for the car, which doesn`t make sense that she would put in several gallons and then another two gallons in the car ten minutes apart. And her car had a capacity of at least 12 gallons, so basically she had three gas cans. Two were full, one had at least two gallons of gas in it. She had a full -- basically had enough gas to fill her car if she ran out.

The state believes that she didn`t want to stop in Arizona to buy gas. She didn`t want any videos or pictures taken of her in Arizona, so she made sure she had a full tank in her trunk in these gas cans.

GRACE: Joining me right now is a friend and former co-worker of Travis Alexander`s, Julie Christopher. Also joining us at the courthouse.

Julie, thank you so much for being with us. You have used the word "stalk" when you refer to how Arias treated Travis Alexander. Explain.

JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER`S: All right. One instance, Arias was sitting next to me and watching an event, and a training session at our prepaid legal business, and she had her camera always with her. And I`m saying that`s when -- the before -- after the breakup. OK? So they broke up, and she is sitting next to me with her camera, and Travis came on stage to do a training, and she keeps on taking pictures, and she looks at me, she said, isn`t he amazing? Isn`t he amazing? He changed my life. He changed my life. I just love him so much, but that was after they broke up.

So that was a little -- that was very weird. And then there was another experience that I had with her when she came to me just before she went back to California, she started touching my hair and she is saying, oh, you know, what do you think, Julie, if I go back dark? I said, well, if I go back brunette? I said, OK, you should -- you look fine either way. And I thought that was curious. And she took a picture of her and me and she goes, that way we`ll look like twins. So that was a little weird. She was very weird person anyway from the beginning.

However, like zombie like. And then I said, well, how are things going with Travis? She said, well, we broke up. And I said, oh, really. She said, yes, I`m so upset. I`m moving back to California, and I`m going back to live with my grandparents, because I love him and I can`t stand being around him just being his girlfriend, but I saw this girl always talking of Travis with her camera. She was always kind of a ghost and a shadow, always kind of there but out of body. It was very weird. Her energy was very evil like and just channeling that dark, that dark energy. And I think everybody can approve to that, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, what are your suspicions regarding her past involvement with witchcraft as it relates to the way she treated Travis?

CHRISTOPHER: In my experience, knowing Travis, Travis was loving life. Travis was an amazing being, a kid (ph) character, and I think that she was involved with witchcraft, and I think it showed up somewhere around the trial. And I believe in those sort of sect (ph) things, what happened is some people are involved with sexual things, activities, and it`s almost, to me, that she put a spell on Travis. And so this is -- when you engage in something sexual with somebody, it`s very powerful. There`s an energy that happens, and you can very easily manipulate someone. And in my humble opinion, I really think that Travis was under a spell, and I think she is trying -- thank you.


GRACE: Back to Julie Christopher, friend and former co-worker of murder victim Travis Alexander. Julie, you were abruptly cut off, right before we went to break. And I wanted to ask you about the last time that you saw Travis. What happened?

CHRISTOPHER: We having dinner. Jodi is next to me on the right. Travis is across from me. And having dinner, just normal people. And all of a sudden I have this energy, that cold rush through my body, and mind you, that`s what I do for a living, I read people. So I really feel that in my body that I have to really pay attention here. I wasn`t sure if it was coming from Jodi or it was for Travis. However -- it was for Travis. So I tell Travis, Travis, honey, let`s go into the ladies` room so we have some privacy. I`ve got a message for because I`m an intuitive. And he knows that about me. So we get together and I hold his hand. And I said we close the eyes, and I said, you know, Travis, there`s a really dark cloud around you. It`s kind of scary. Make sure you watch your back.

And I said, however, there`s a lot of light, a lot of angels. You`re being guided. You`re going to be free. And I go on into this reading that was so bizarre. I see dark and light, dark and light. And you know, he cried. I cried. Because it was very emotional. It`s almost like he looked at me thinking like I kind of know what you`re talking about. It was just bizarre. And then we wrapped up. We hugged. I said, Travis, I just want to let you know, as a friend, I love you, I love you, I love you. We went back to sit down. And that was it.


GRACE: We remember American hero, Army First Lieutenant Robert Bennedsen, 21, Vashon Island, Washington. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal. Parents Tracy and Scott, sister Jamie. Robert Bennedsen, American hero.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How about the gun that you used to kill Mr. Alexander? How big was that gun?

ARIAS: It wasn`t very big.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looked like a toy gun, right?

ARIAS: It looked like a real gun to me.


GRACE: Joining us right now is Bryan Carr, a friend of Jodi Arias. Bryan, thank you for being with us.

BRYAN CARR, FRIEND OF JODI`S: Yes, no problem.

GRACE: When was the last time you spoke with Jodi?

CARR: This was Sunday, two days ago.

GRACE: And what did she have to say?

CARR: Really just trying to stay positive. She didn`t have to say a lot. I mean, we were talking a little bit about what`s going on, on the outside, basically with a certain person.

GRACE: A certain person? Who is that?

CARR: I don`t want to say his name on -- on the media.

GRACE: OK. So you talked about somebody that -- a mutual friend?

CARR: Right. Right. Someone on the outside. Right.

GRACE: And how is it that you got to know Jodi Arias?

CARR: Yes, actually, my sister, she was a victim of domestic violence. She was in abuse. So I reached my hand out to Jodi and went to visit her in jail. And from there we just started getting to know each other. We -- she`s a great person to talk to. And we ask a lot of personal questions with each other.

GRACE: Like what?

CARR: I mean, just like -- she asks about me, like what do I do for a living. She -- personal questions in that aspect.

GRACE: And I assume that you are convinced of her innocence?

CARR: I -- obviously, she`s not innocent. Obviously she admitted killing Travis. But the reason is -- no one knows the reason why she killed Travis. She`s never had any violent acts in the past.

GRACE: Bryan Carr with us, friend of Arias. Everyone, our eyes on the courtroom as cross-examination goes on. Dr. Drew`s up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.


Dr. Drew transcript: Jodi Arias trial day 24, Feb. 27, 2013, Arias admits she liked sex with Alexander (videos)

Feb. 27, 2013, day 24 in the case Arizona vs. Jodi Arias may have been one of the best days for the prosecution to date. It was the first time that Jodi Arias repeatedly stated that she enjoyed sex with Travis Alexander, as opposed to her claims that she felt like a prostitute and that he forced her to have sex with him.

Dr. Drew addressed this shift in the trial and pointed out how Jodi Arias' demeanor was different during the day's testimony.

You may watch the full trial video below as well as read Dr. Drew's transcript from the show.

Click the video player above to watch Arizona vs. Jodi Arias streaming live online when court is in session.

Was Jodi "Into It"?; Mental Illness and Addiction
Aired February 27, 2013 - 21:00   ET


DR. DREW PINSKY, HOST (voice-over): On the show tonight, day four of the Jodi Arias cross-examination.

JUAN MARTINEZ, PROSECUTOR: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?


PINSKY: The explicit text messages you haven`t heard.

MARTINEZ: You start out by saying, "Oh, my gosh, this is so freaking hot." We`re talking about his (EXPLETIVE DELETED), right?


PINSKY: The graphic photos you haven`t seen. And the racy testimony you won`t believe.

MARTINEZ: "Oh, yes. I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you like a dirty horny little schoolgirl," right?


PINSKY: And later, fired for having premarital sex. A single teacher lost her job when she got pregnant. She joins me for an exclusive interview.

Let`s get started.


PINSKY: Joining us for tonight`s show and also welcome to awful you tonight, my co-host for the week, Laura Baron.

Laura, here we go. There`s more and more of Jodi Arias.

We also have criminal defense attorney and author of "Mistrial." It`s out in April. Mark Geragos.

Mark, good evening.


PINSKY: And psychologist Cheryl Arutt.

And we thought we had heard everything about the graphic sexual exchanges between Jodi and Travis.


PINSKY: Yes, wait, Laura, there`s more. And this time, she`s not crying when she listens and reads and hears all this material.

BARON: Oh, no.

PINSKY: Maybe we are finally.

BARON: Right.

PINSKY: And a reminder, a warning, this stuff is not for children. Be careful. This material is explicit.

Here we go.



ARIAS: KY, you just spread it on as you need it and you just keep sliding around. You remember the first time that you and I grinded at Ehrenberg. And it goes like, I ended up just (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and you were like whoa I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and we (EXPLETIVE DELETED) at the same time I looked around (EXPLETIVE DELETED) all over. It was so hot.


MARTINEZ: It was because it was fun, right?



ARIAS: Do you remember that time I came to visit you when I was still working in California and I fell asleep on your chair next to your bed and you just woke me up by pulling my pants off and (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I remember that was hot.


MARTINEZ: You said you woke me up by pulling my pants off and licking my (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


MARTINEZ: You actually called him "Hottie Biscotti", correct?


MARTINEZ: This is you sending him this text message, right?


MARTINEZ: "If you`re a lucky boy and you promise to give me a good well-deserved spanking maybe you could give my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a too much-needed pounding too. Kidding." Correct?


MARTINEZ: And then you said, "Oh, yes. I want to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you like a dirty horny little schoolgirl," right?


MARTINEZ: You did enjoy dressing up for him, right?



PINSKY: This is a woman fighting for her life and smiling and looking gleeful about explicit material that made her cry just weeks -- just days ago.

BARON: It`s almost like she`s also enjoying making this prosecutor have to talk about all of these dirty little things.

PINSKY: Yes. And they`re her words, and these are things that the jury is using to judge her.

Let`s go straight out to "In Session" correspondent Beth Karas.

Beth, what do you think the prosecutor was trying to do there with all that sex tape and text messaging?

BETH KARAS, "IN SESSION" CORRESPONDENT: We spent days listening to her explain al of the same stuff in terms of how degrading it was to her, how she engaged in conduct she really didn`t want to engage in, and now, the prosecutor --

PINSKY: Right.

KARAS: -- is challenging her on that. You know what? She initiated it. Can I just tell you one other thing she said to him in a text message we saw today after he sent her a photo of his penis?

She said, "Oh, my gosh, that is so freaking hot. I want to lick it up and then sit on it. You are so tasty. My goodness."

BARON: What?

KARAS: And there was more.

I mean, this is a woman -- these are text messages not seen before today. This is a woman who was initiating it. Was she a victim of sexual persecution? The state says no way.

PINSKY: Now, Mark, you were sort of critical yesterday of the prosecutor. Do you feel the same way today?

I think he was listening to you yesterday. He backed off a little bit. I thought he was kind of nicer today.

BARON: He did. He definitely did.

GERAGOS: Yes, he absolutely dialed it back today. Yesterday, he was so over the top. I didn`t even understand where he was going and what he was doing. Today, I thought he was infinitely more effective.

Sometimes that happens. I mean, you get so hyped up. I understand it, being in one of these high-profile trials. You`re looking at it, you want to just decimate the defendant. But yesterday was just a bloodbath I thought for him.

Today, on the other hand, I thought he was a lot more effective. I think if he were to just kind of truncate this at this point and just get in, get out, and make some of his points, he`d be a lot better off. I just don`t think that the longer you keep her up there the better it is for the prosecution.

I -- my feeling is that you humanize her. She may be a liar and a repeated liar, but the fact that she`s up there and that the jury sees her and that if she connects with just one juror, at some level, at some visceral level, so that they don`t want to kill her, the defense has done their job and the prosecution`s helped them do it.

PINSKY: Mark, this woman is going after Travis with all this provocative material. I don`t think the defense did a very good job of making her the controlled, bullied victim. Do you?

BARON: I agree.

GERAGOS: Well, remember something, Drew. The defense -- you know, the old expression my father used to tell me, you can`t fight the facts. They were dealt a hand here that was not one of the best if you`re -- it was an uphill battle from the beginning. All they`re trying to do, and you and I discussed this at the beginning of the trial, all they`re trying to do in my humble opinion is save her life.

I think that they may effectively have saved her life. I -- my feeling is putting her up there, this is not -- at least so far, the prosecution I don`t think has gotten people to want to kill her. They won`t -- I mean, I don`t think the idea that she`s going to walk, or people keep saying, oh, you know, is this going to be a not guilty? That isn`t in doubt, I don`t think.

This is a mitigation. This is whether or not they`re going to give her the death penalty. And to that extent, I think the defense has been effective. And the prosecution, up until today, I don`t think has been effective.

PINSKY: Yes. I -- go ahead, Laura.

BARON: I agree. I thought yesterday Martinez was totally over the top. It seems like today, though, we see all of that smiling and her gamesmanship today. She seems way more manipulative now that he`s given space to really see who she is.

Do you agree?

GERAGOS: Yes, she`s -- I agree with that. Today she looks diabolical. If you want to put somebody to death, today it`s a lot more likely than it was yesterday.

PINSKY: And, Cheryl, do you think by giving her more time on the stand, the prosecution is giving her an opportunity to bond or find that one person who might connect on a visceral level?

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Dr. Drew, I think that`s what they`re hoping for. But I don`t think that she`s helping them much with that because the smiling that she`s doing, how pleased with herself she seems to be, those are indications of contempt, of that duping delight that she`s basically, with her body language saying I`m enjoying having this position of power.

And I think she`s really kind of thinking to herself, I am putting one over on you, you`re an idiot. And it`s coming across in her non-verbal behavior.

BARON: It`s also coming across a little flirtatious, wouldn`t you say?

ARUTT: I think so, Laura. I do think so. I -- her sexuality has been such a base for her power with men. And if she can connect with men on a sexual level, and there are a lot of men on this jury, think I that if they can -- if she can titillate them with this, if she can excite them with this and get them to want her, I think that really is a way to play on the sympathies of the men on the jury --

PINSKY: I`ve got to interrupt, Cheryl. Mark, please back me up on this. Right here is where men and women divide on this woman. The more she`s up there, the creepier she gets to men and the more women get sympathetic and talk about her sexuality and --

BARON: Oh, she`s creepy.


GERAGOS: Drew, I was going to jump in and say, this woman today, she gives me the willies. And yesterday I could understand that. Today was a whole different issue.

PINSKY: It`s so fascinating --

ARUTT: But I`m talking about what she`s trying to do. I`m not saying she`s doing it.

BARON: Would you have dated her yesterday, Mark?

GERAGOS: I don`t know that I would have dated her. But remember what you`re asking them to do. Remember as a defense lawyer, what you`re looking to do here.

You`ve got a predominantly, if I`m not mistaken, a predominantly male jury. So, all you`re looking to do is find one or two males there, and preferably two because they can kind of back each other up on this jury in terms of --

PINSKY: Mark, every male is scrolling through the people they date when`d they were in their 20s going, oh, my God, oh, my God, he get me away from this woman, I hate her, I can`t stand her, right?

GERAGOS: I understand that, Drew. They`re maybe looking for that one guy who maybe thinks he`s got a shot.

PINSKY: I think they`d better put their mind on the one girl --

BARON: I think they found him on the shower.

PINSKY: Oh, jeez, oh, my goodness, you people.

OK, hang on there, buddy.

Thank you to Beth Karas.

Next up -- Laura, you behave yourself. Next up, you haven`t seen these pictures before. We are going to show you autopsy pictures with our friend there, Bill Lloyd. These are pictures not before shown on television, but I thought it was important to do so to give you a sense of the brutality of this murder and the sequence. It`s sort of laid out by these pictures.

And again, I don`t know why the prosecution is not focusing on that because when you think about it, it`s like -- it`s wild what she was doing to that poor man.

Later, fired for premarital sex. The Christian controversy brewing in California -- there she is -- fired because she got pregnant before she got married. Is that right? We`ll be talking about that.



MARTINEZ: The 25-caliber handgun that your grandfather had according to him was like a toy gun, right?


MARTINEZ: How about the gun that you used to kill Mr. Alexander? How big was that gun?

ARIAS: It wasn`t very big.

MARTINEZ: It looked like a toy gun, right?

ARIAS: It looked like a real gun to me.

MARTINEZ: Well, and it could fit in your purse, couldn`t it?

ARIAS: If I removed some other items, it would fit.

MARTINEZ: So, the answer is yes, it could fit in your purse, right?



PINSKY: That was the prosecutor attempting to link Jodi to the stolen gun.

Back with my co-host and all of you as well, Laura Baron.

Laura, I`ve got to tell you, during the break I was thinking about you and my --


PINSKY: -- voluptuous female colleagues talking about how sexual this woman is. And that`s -- the more she gets that way, the more men are recoiling.

BARON: Right.

PINSKY: And you guys are talking about it as flirtation. We talk about that as horror.

BARON: OK. We`re also talking about it as psycho. I mean, this does not feel like oh, my bestie, I want to go to summer camp with her and see like what notes we can compare.

PINSKY: No. This is somebody -- we heard her yesterday described as a zombie. We heard her as a chameleon. We hear her as empty.

BARON: Scary.

PINSKY: And scary. And she really fits a profile of a common stalking -- or psychopathic stalker. We`ll talk about that as we go along here.

We`re going to show you now some images that I`ve been wanting to show for a while. Now, I`ve not been able to show you until now. They are very graphic.

As a physician I felt it was important to walk through this and also to give people a sense of the brutality of all this. You don`t get it by talking about it. You get it by seeing the path specimens, as we say.

And CNN --

BARON: Des that mean photos?

PINSKY: Photos, what we`re going to show. CNN`s Randi Kaye has been covering the trial and did a special report on what the pictures do in fact tell us.

She joins us, along with pathologist Dr. Bill Lloyd, who is our expert on post specimens.

Randi, now, can you tell us in what order Jodi is supposed to have inflicted these wounds on Travis?


Apparently, according to Jodi at least, she says that she shot Travis Alexander first. But the state, as you know, is not buying that. They believe that she had him in a very vulnerable position, bent down in the shower while they were taking some of these photos that were discovered and recovered on that digital camera. Bent down in the shower, vulnerable position, kneeling down, and that`s when she took a knife and stabbed him in the heart, right in the chest.

PINSKY: OK. Randi. I`ve got to stop you. I`ve got to stop you, Randi.

We`re looking at a picture. We first saw the hand which we`ve seen before. What we`re seeing now is a picture that`s not been shown on television which is Travis slumped in the bathtub dead, clearly dead. This is not a person who`s moving.

And my point and Dr. Lloyd, I want you to ring in on this too, I don`t see evidence of the throat wound in that picture. There`s no -- there would be blood everywhere even if that wound was given after death, or soon after death, wouldn`t you agree?

DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: Well, there`s two important points. One, his throat may have been slashed elsewhere in the apartment, and he bled out while being dragged back to the shower. And two, if the shower was running, a lot of the blood would have been washed down the drain.


And, Randi, what is alleged to have happened there? Is she alleging that she -- what? When did the throat cut occur?

BARON: So horrifying.

KAYE: After she had stabbed him about nine times in the back, he was apparently standing at the sink in the bathroom spitting up blood trying to get away from her she then got him down to the ground. She ended up dragging him or trying to drag him. And it`s at the threshold to the bedroom, not very far from that bathroom, where she apparently slit his throat. There was a lot of blood recovered, a pool of blood recovered in that very spot.

And then standing over him is when the state says that she actually shot him in the right temple and the bullet lodged in the left cheek.

PINSKY: And, Dr. Lloyd, you and I have talked about the angle of that bullet and the fact that there was not bleeding into the skull suggests that this was sort of a -- probably a superior position and something postmortem.

LLOYD: Yes. An important rule to remember is, if you`re not alive you`re not bleeding. So he already took the shot over the right brow, out to the left cheek. His heart wasn`t beating at this time. He had very little blood left in his body.

The autopsy confirmed the absence of blood, the absence of blood in his skull from the bullet track, and there was no tissue evidence of hemorrhage that would have happened from a gunshot wound like that if the - -

PINSKY: Now, Dr. Lloyd --


LLOYD: -- is still alive.

PINSKY: -- we`re looking at another picture that has never yet been seen. It`s a laceration on his scalp behind his right ear. And it`s a crazy slash. Like somebody wildly yielding a knife would do something like that.

And by the way, by the appearance of this, I would imagine this was somebody running away getting slashed in the head. Do you agree with that?

BARON: Why running away, Drew?

PINSKY: Just by -- I can`t imagine how she could get behind him and slash his scalp like that.

Do you agree, Dr. Lloyd?

LLOYD: This takes us -- this takes us back to the discussion of the defensive injuries. First, the active defensive injuries, don`t stab me, don`t stab me, and the knife cuts right in the web of the hand. And then he`s trying to protect himself with the cuts to the back of his hand, trying to protect his head.

During that, with a lot of motion of his arm, the knife could have come and glanced the back of the head. The clean edges to that wound suggest that it`s a laceration caused by a knife.

What`s also important, Drew, is this wasn`t discussed beforehand and it`s not until you get to the autopsy and you wash off the remains. You often discover many injuries that weren`t seen at the crime scene.

PINSKY: Randi, this makes me -- this is why I wanted to discuss this. And I -- it almost brings me to tears looking at how horrific this is.


PINSKY: And, Randi -- so I want to ask you two things, Randi. A, does this fit with what the state is alleging? And isn`t it important that people understand the brutality of what the jurors are looking at here and judging about?

BARON: I think so.

KAYE: Do the people in the court understand what happened here?

PINSKY: What I`m saying is --

KAYE: There was a truck going by. Sorry. I was trying to hear you.

PINSKY: Sorry. This is really what the jurors are seeing, are things like this. So, they`re going to get this full picture of how brutal, just how brutal -- I mean, it seems bizarre to me to be talking about the sex tapes and the texting and stuff like that. When you go actually to the events of that day and look at the sheer brutality of what went on.

BARON: It`s a monster.

KAYE: Well, they`re going to have to try to put this together. This is a woman who they`ve played all these sex tapes. They`ve played the phone sex. They`ve played -- they`ve shown the text messages and all the dirty talk between the two of them.

This is a woman who clearly, according to the state, has enjoyed this relationship, has enjoyed the sex with him and encouraged the sex with him. So, how they will make that leap to what happened that day? I mean, we`re talking 29 stab wounds, practically cut his head off with that knife in the end by slitting his throat. What happened that day?

She, of course, as you know, is saying it`s self-defense. But they`re going to have to --

PINSKY: No way.

KAYE: -- connect the dots and understand what happened.

PINSKY: -- that`s what I -- I don`t see how -- I`ve got to take a quick break. We`re going to keep this conversation going. We`ll be right back.



ARIAS: I did see Travis the day that he passed away. Two individuals that -- one wanted to take my life. The guy with the gun sort of succumb (ph) to her pressure I think because he was holding the gun at my forehead and I was on the ground on my knees. She was standing over Travis near him, and he was -- the guy with the gun was standing near me. He pulled the trigger, and nothing happened. Just a click.

I heard again a loud pop, and I was hit on the back of the head. Travis was on all fours on the tile, and he was -- well, I say all fours. But one of his hands was actually holding his head.

She was in the bathroom standing over Travis. And I charged her. And I pushed her as hard as I could. And she fell over him. He was sort of not crawling, but he was kind of moving and trying to stand up.

And I was able to get about halfway down the hallway when she came back at me and we struggled. She was doing what she could to overpower me. She was kicking me. They both began to argue about whether or not I should die.


PINSKY: That was an interview with Jodi Arias from 2008. Back with my co-host for the week, Laura Baron.

BARON: It`s unbelievable how emotional she could get in such a lie.

PINSKY: That`s what`s sort of disgusting about this. But for me nothing more shocking, more disturbing than these disturbing, graphic autopsy pictures that really tell the tale.

So, as a physician I thought it important to bring this back and help people understand just how brutal this was.

Randi, you`re covering this case. I haven`t heard your opinion yet on what you think -- how you think the prosecution is doing and how you think she`s being perceived by the court and the jury.

KAYE: Well, it`s so interesting. I mean, certainly, the prosecution has been criticized to some extent for going at her too hard. I think today in court, Juan Martinez, the prosecutor, pulled it back a little bit.

But as far as how she`s doing, I think she`s running this guy in circles. She pretends not to understand him, she goes back at him, she tries to confuse him. And I think what in the end is happening is she`s really confusing the jury, even though I know you`ve noticed this too because I`ve seen you talk about it on the show, how she`s sort of like a robot, how she answers everything to the jury like this and then she switches it back to the prosecution. I mean, it`s just so bizarre.

PINSKY: Yes, it`s bizarre. And then today the sense of this power over the courtroom that she seems to be expressing that we`re all pick up on.

I`ve got to take another quick break here. I`m going to get these pictures back for the panel to sort of talk about that day, the brutality and how this courtroom is receiving -- or how the jury is receiving this case. Be right back.



MARTINEZ: Can you imagine how much it must have hurt Mr. Alexander when you stuck that knife right into his chest?

Yet, when we hear him in court saying that he never masturbated or (EXPLETIVE DELETED) before he met you, you`re saying you won`t believe that, right?

ARIAS: Based on what he said --

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?

ARIAS: -- to me, that would be no because he has (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

MARTINEZ: Yes or no?


PINSKY: Those are the many faces of Jodi Arias during this trial. Her emotions allegedly have run across many --


PINSKY: That`s right. The facial expressions are supposed to convey happy, sad, confident, crying. I don`t feel the connection to any real emotion very often.

BARON: I don`t either. The only time I see her smiling is when she`s in control of the information. Otherwise, she`s pretty stone-faced.

PINSKY: But then, it`s really an unpleasant sort of glee that she has. Mark, give me a brief description of crimes of passion and why this is not a crime of passion?

MARK GERAGOS, AUTHOR, "MISTRIAL": Well, if they`re looking to reduce this, to negate the malice, that`s you what you need for a murder, they`ve got ample evidence for a juror to hang their hat on. I think what they really are trying to do -- I don`t know that they expect a manslaughter out of this or a lesser.

I think what they are looking to do is to get a juror or two or maybe all to not want to kill her. And to that extent, I`m going to repeat myself here, I think the longer they keep her up there on this cross- examination, the worse it is for them. Drew, I will tell you, you may be a doctor, but from a strategic standpoint or a psychological standpoint, you`re, I think, showing of the autopsy photos is infinitely more effective in terms of the premeditation.

Them going in and starting to talk about her getting gas cans so that she wouldn`t have to buy gas on her way to Arizona, that`s effective. The finding of the gun or the reporting of the gun lost, that`s effective. Get in. This cross could have been done in three hours, in and out and enough with it. And then, leave all the rest of this histrionics for your closing argument. I don`t think the prosecution`s doing themselves any favors.

PINSKY: I am completely with you. And Dr. Lloyd, I mean, that`s why -- you know, as you and I know as physicians, you can`t really convey -- it`s like when we`re working with medical students, they have to see the specimens to really get the impact, visceral experiential impact of what the story is telling.


DR. BILL LLOYD, PATHOLOGIST: If the jury is going to exercise justice in this case, then they have to have the totality of information. There has to be balance. But they need to see the photographs. They don`t need to see 30 copies of every wound, but they should be able to see the totality of injuries that this individual sustained to support the argument that this was not defensive at all.

PINSKY: OK. There he is alive and healthy. I would like to show him in the bathtub, if you guys could bring that picture forward for a second. And clearly dead. And let`s remind ourselves that he is hauled out of that bathtub by a woman who I guess was a bit heavier at the time. She`s lost weight, we are hearing, to be on the stand to look more -- weaker.

She hauled him out of there. And Dr. Lloyd there, were also stabs -- let`s see the leg wounds also, if you could show me that. There were leg wounds, back wounds, hand wounds. There are the leg wounds. I mean, she was stabbing him all over his body.

All right. Couple of technical points, Drew. On these autopsy photos, the body`s been washed. This man has been dead for nine days. So, the skin is what we say macerated. It has decomposed. I believe a lot of these things that we think may be interpreted as wounds are actually changes to the skin that has come from laying in a wet shower for nine days. I think --

PINSKY: OK. So, that`s modeling --

LLOYD: -- she dragged him into the shower.

PINSKY: Oh. Interesting. Modeling and maceration.

LLOYD: After nine days, the skin just falls off. Now, another technical point. I don`t think she dragged him out of the shower. I think she dragged him into the shower. They have hand -- bloody handprints of him in the hallway, and he looks bigger now. But, I think that`s just an issue, again, with decomposition.

Do we have something that control that image with? We sure do. We have photos of him in the shower. And in the shower, when he was still alive, he looked pretty buff. So. that inflated corpse that we see in the shower represents nine days of decomposition.

PINSKY: Got it.

BARON: So disturbing. Drew --


BARON: This is so over the top. She went so over the top on him. Do you think she was enjoying it at all?

PINSKY: My head can`t even go there, Laura. Just the fact that this woman was able to snap like that. Cheryl, just real quick, psychopathic stalking, when someone is in that state, and I`m postulating that she`s a psychopathic stalker, they can`t accept responsibility for what they`re doing. They disavow -- you`ve heard her do this on the stand, disavow that she`s capable of that kind of thing, and yet, there`s the evidence. That`s the evidence. That`s what she did. Cheryl.

CHERYL ARUTT, PSY.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: The evidence is there for psychopathic stalking and the vast majority of the time a psychopathic stalker is a man. Four out of five stalking victims are women. And yet, there are male stalking victims as well. You know, when we first started talking about this, I thought that she was more of a psychopathic kind of personality.

And then, as we discussed it, I started to come around to a point of view of maybe there`s more of a borderline kind of thing going on. I`m back to actually now a blend of psychopath and borderline. And I`m so curious about Mark, about why is it that a crime of passion is a mitigating circumstance? What is it about that that --

PINSKY: Let me just say, I`ll have to answer that because I`ve got -- because crime of passion does get a bit of a pass, but it has to happen like immediately, like he`s just to walk in on him with somebody and pow. That, I got to go break, Mark. Would that not be true?

GERAGOS: You got it, Drew. Today, you`re just quite the lawyer. You`re playing one on TV.

BARON: He`s a lawyer. He`s a doctor. He`s superman at night.

PINSKY: No, no. I`ve known some of the best since high school, Mark.

BARON: He does it all.


PINSKY: All right, guys. Thank you very much for this interesting conversation.

Next up my jury is back. We`re going to get their take on the cross- examination.

And later, a hard-working husband and a beautiful daughter, how a fairy tale marriage became a cannibalistic fantasy.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you lie to the detective? Yes or no?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you also lie to "48 Hours"?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you lie to people in Utah?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you lie to Daniel Freeman (ph)?

ARIAS: Yes. Everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So, you lied to a lot of people, but you`re saying that just because you`re sitting here in this courtroom, there has been, for lack of a better term, a conversion and you`re now telling the truth, right?

ARIAS: For lack of a better term, yes.


PINSKY: Welcome back. It is time for "Dr. Drew`s Jury." I`m back with my co-host this week, relationship coach, Laura Baron. Joining us, our favorite Katie wick, our resident juror.


PINSKY: And back again, rapidly becoming a favorite, Stacey Fairington. Both were in court today. All right. Katie, as we just heard Jodi, lying, lying, admitting to that. What was the reaction in the courtroom?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW "JUROR": Basically, today, the jury wasn`t taking a lot of notes at all, Dr. Drew. They were just listening, because obviously, we know she`s a lying -- she`s a liar. She`s lying about everything. I did see a few instances where they really started to take notes. The first one was when Martinez started talking about the rope.

Heads were down taking notes. The gas cans. Who knew that there was a third gas can? That was a news alert. And they really started paying a lot of attention on that. So, they were interested in that. So, that was interesting to see.

And also, I was sort of sitting behind Jodi`s mom and aunt today and when Juan Martinez and Jodi started going at it again and making kind of going back and forth as usual, I saw Jodi`s mom and aunt kind of look over and sort of giggle with each other. And you know, bless their hearts.

They`re going through a lot, too, Dr. Drew. But Jodi`s still smirking and I`m just curious if her attorneys are telling her to stop the smirking.

PINSKY: I would hope so. Laura -- now, Stacey, Laura had some concerns about Jodi`s wardrobe today. Laura, did --


BARON: Girls, tell me that that green shirt did not irritate you. I was like, please woman, we saw that you had 29 stabs in this dude. You are not green.

PINSKY: Stacey.

STACEY FAIRINGTON, DR. DREW "JUROR": Definitely not green. She just -- you know, it`s amazing to watch her just talk about this so cavalierly and also just with so much -- oh, but he was such a great guy, but then, I still needed to stab him and I still needed to shoot him. I mean, I`m still waiting for him to bring out Jodi, really, what did make you mad about him to kill him?

I mean, I can`t wrap my mind around still throughout this testimony exactly what has Travis done that has made you so mad to completely kill him like that?

PINSKY: So Stacey, I think I hear you saying your husband`s safe.

BARON: And he can take a shower.

FAIRINGTON: Every day. Yes. He`s perfectly safe. I`m not going after him.


PINSKY: Let`s talk to Ed in California. Ed -- well, hang on. Ed wanted to make a comment here. Ed, go right ahead.

ED, CALIFORNIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. I just find it hard to believe she would drive all the way to Mesa, let herself be -- make it to his bed knowing there`s a loaded gun and a big knife at his disposal. What kind of person would do that, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Katie?

WICK: Right. And the gun issue for me is ridiculous. OK, first of all, she says I never shot a gun in my life. OK, so, but you knew that Travis had a gun, supposedly, which we don`t believe is true anyways. So, he`s chasing after you.

You`re going to run up on his closet, which was really neat and organized, the shirts weren`t disturbed or anything when they went in after the crime, get a gun you don`t know is loaded, shoot it not knowing how to shoot. Any gun owner knows, mm-mm, especially when --

PINSKY: And by the way, no powder wound on his face. So, it was at a decent distance. Let`s get Brandy in Pennsylvania. Real quick, Brandy.

BARON: Right.

BRANDY, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Dr. Drew. She said she wants to die. Why not just give her what she wants and deserves and give her that penalty and give Travis rest in peace?

PINSKY: I -- duly noted.

BARON: People are so upset about this, though. I mean, there`s something about her that just feels so monstrous.

PINSKY: Stacey, in the room, can you explain that?

FAIRINGTON: Well, I mean, I think it was -- you know, she said the other day when she tried to cut herself -- you know, to kill herself and it hurt so bad. And Juan said to her, can you imagine how it felt when you stabbed him with that knife in his heart?



FAIRINGTON: You know, Jodi, you know, you did it. You won`t do it to yourself because that`s how she is. She is very self-centered. She thinks about herself, how she feels. It`s all about Jodi. The whole show. All of it.

PINSKY: And she disavows -- she disavows the things she has done that aren`t consistent with what Jodi does. So, thank you, ladies.

Next up I`ve got a woman who alleges she was terminated because she engaged in premarital sex. She is here with us.

BARON: It`s ridiculous.

PINSKY: And later, more on the cop accused of plotting to kill and eat numerous women, including his wife. Be right back.



PINSKY (voice-over): Sacked for having premarital sex. That is the claim of a 29-year-old woman who says she was fired from her job at a Christian college when her supervisor learned she was pregnant.

TERI JAMES, ALLEGES PREMARITAL SEX LED TO FIRING: I feel like what San Diego Christian College did to me was hurtful and Unchrist-like.

PINSKY: And as the college fights back, alleging she sign and then shattered their, quote, "community covenant" by engaging in premarital sex. The woman`s attorney insists the school`s purity pledge is invalid because it`s illegal.


PINSKY (on-camera): So, the question is does a private Christian college have the right to tell an unmarried staff member and students to abstain from sex? I`m back with this week`s co-host, Laura Baron. Also with us, we`ve got Teri James. She is the college staffer who was fired. And her attorney, Gloria Allred, joins us as well.

Thank you ladies for joining us. I just -- I think this is an outrageous story. But Teri, you`re due in June. You lost your job. What impact has this had on your life?

JAMES: It`s had a huge impact on my life. I mean, I was single, and I`m -- you know, I`m in my late 20s. And I have supported myself, you know, for a long time. And it took away my health insurance, my income, and pretty much like my community and my livelihood. So, it`s just had a huge impact.

PINSKY: Well, let me zero in. Teri, you`re a Christian person, right? You feel --


PINSKY: -- deeply connected to your faith and your community.

JAMES: Yes, I do.

PINSKY: And here, you`re being cast out. You`re being excommunicated in a way. I mean, not fully but --

BARON: Sure.


PINSKY: And you signed this thing called the college`s community covenant. I want to read a little bit about what some of the behaviors that are banned, this according to this covenant. Also off limits, jealousy. God forbid if you feel jealous. Lust, sexually immoral behavior --

BARON: How do you even keep track of this stuff?

PINSKY: I don`t know. I`m feeling -- sometime, I feel jealous about you, Laura.

BARON: I can understand that. You can borrow my sweater.

PINSKY: Pornography, homosexuality, which I got to say, all of this, lying, drunkenness, thievery, and dishonesty. They are -- Gloria Allred -- oh, by the way, I have to say, we reached out to San Diego Christian College for a statement, and although we did not receive a response, they have stated publicly that all job candidates must sign the community covenant before they`re hired and, quote, "withdraw from the community may result if these commitments are not honored" --

BARON: Unbelievable.

PINSKY: -- unquote. Gloria, discriminatory. Do they have the right -- aren`t these organizations under state jurisdiction? This is a California state, I understand, issue. This seems outrageous. Are we missing something?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: I don`t think you are missing something, Dr. Drew, because we filed this lawsuit against San Diego Christian College, and we allege gender discrimination, pregnancy discrimination, marital status discrimination, because obviously, if she were pregnant and married, she would not have been terminated.

And, we don`t believe they even have the right to call her in as they did and ask her, are you pregnant?

BARON: Agreed.

ALLRED: Because we think that`s a private medical information and they have no right to ask her that, and they did it. And also, we don`t think they have any right to terminate her because even though they`re a Christian college, they are registered with the secretary of state of California as a business.

So, they are a for-profit business. As such, they are subject to the laws of the state of California and the state constitution, which prohibit discrimination.

BARON: That and also just how humiliating was this for you, sweetie? I mean, to be -- you`re cast away from your community, practically, your religion. How are you doing?

JAMES: It`s been really difficult. It`s been really hard because my husband is an alumni of the school, and so, he`s lost his community as well. And so, both of us are having to rebuild that community again. And we`ve had some really great friends that have stuck by us. And it`s been really good to have them.

But there are friends that we`ve totally lost. And so, it`s -- it`s been a difficult time. I mean, getting married and having a baby and all of that is supposed to be joyous, and we`re trying to make the best of our situation right now. But yes, it`s been difficult for the both of us.

PINSKY: And Gloria, aside from jealousy and premarital sex, you can`t be a homosexual and be in their community. Isn`t that a very, very serious issue of discrimination in the state of California?

BARON: So antiquated.

ALLRED: Well, I mean, they state that is part of their community covenant. By the way, the community covenant doesn`t say anything about and you can be terminated if you, in fact, are a homosexual or if you engage in premarital sex. So, again, even if she signed it, I don`t think that that is valid. And that`s why we`re suing.

By the way, her then boyfriend who is now her husband and who is the father of the child-to-be, was offered a job at San Diego Community College -- Christian College, and we allege that they knew that he was her boyfriend and the father-to-be of the child and still they offered him --

BARON: They knew that he was --

ALLRED: -- a job even after terminating her.

BARON: Oh, my gosh.

PINSKY: OK. So, it`s complicated. We will be watching this. Gloria, Teri, my dear, good luck with the child. That`s what`s really important here. I`m glad you guys are together and happy and have a rich support network. You`re going to need that. Gloria, we`ll watch this carefully --

ALLRED: And Teri is very brave. I just want to commend her.

BARON: Yes, absolutely.


ALLRED: She`s very brave to speak out about this. And she wants to help other women in her situation.

PINSKY: I wouldn`t be surprised if others kind of sort of joined other organizations and networks sort of join with you because it seems like this does not seem quite right.

BARON: No, especially when the guy is fine.

PINSKY: Well, there you go. Thank you, ladies.

Next an update on the accused cannibal cop and what he allegedly told, get this, a butcher. Be right back.


PINSKY: Back with my co-host, Laura Baron. We are tacking once again, Laura, about the so-called cannibal cop.

BARON: Oh, I hate this story. This is so disgusting.

PINSKY: It`s disgusting, but you can`t look away from this one either.

BARON: Right.

PINSKY: He was an NYPD cop, married his girlfriend he met online, ladies. This online thing, be very cautious. They had a baby. His wife suspected he might be cheating, and she sort of looks into what he`s doing on the computer and --

BARON: Good for her, by the way.

PINSKY: And by the way, I`m with you, Laura. If you`re not doing anything wrong, you shouldn`t mind your spouse looking at anything you`re doing --

BARON: Exactly. Open kimono.

PINSKY: OK. What she found was rather than him cheating, he was plotting to kill her and her friends and eat them.

BARON: That`s so disgusting.

PINSKY: Today in court, an FBI agent told -- testified that he told a butcher that he wanted to string her upside down and then slow-roast her until she died.

BARON: Who even does this? He was -- he had said that it was like a fantasy, but he wasn`t actually going to do it. Is that like only half teeth marks in her cheek? Is that possible?

PINSKY: Well, not only that, it`s like a fantasy of doing something to a child and then going to websites where people are talking about that and looking at images of that. I think that`s a crime myself.

BARON: I agree.

PINSKY: Quickly, Trish in Oklahoma. Trish, did you want to say something about this horrific story?

TRISH, OKLAHOMA: Yes. Hi, Dr. Drew. As an NYPD officer, he lured his victims and he should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

BARON: Agreed.

PINSKY: Well, he is in trouble. We`re going to be covering the case a little bit. And I, Laura, just am worried -- I went and did a little investigation online. I encourage other people to do that and see people that are into this kind of stuff. It will turn you upside down --

BARON: I did not even know that cannibalism was like a thing. I just thought it was like bad tacos that I had. I don`t know why I --

PINSKY: Well, it`s something that is out there and the people that have it feel afraid of it but --

BARON: Of course.

PINSKY: Here`s a basic note to anybody--

BARON: What do you mean that people who have it feel afraid --

PINSKY: I`ll show you video of some of these people talking about their condition maybe later on after the show, Laura, and you`ll see them. They`re mortified by it, but they can`t -- it`s like a lust. And this is my note to everybody that wants to do horrible things. If something horrible happened to you or you have a brain problem and it makes you wired in such a way that awful things are sort of motivated, I don`t fault you for that. What I fault you for is not getting help --

BARON: Agreed.

PINSKY: -- when you know that stuff is taking over. Get help.

BARON: Agreed.

PINSKY: -- because it can make a difference. They can prevent you from hurting yourself or somebody else. There`s lots of behaviors that are not OK that you may be thinking about. Get some help. Thank you all for watching. Anderson Cooper with us tomorrow night to talk about Jodi Arias. "Nancy Grace" is up now.